Btu eater.

Dave Stroman

That was $800 per month. I am really interested to see how much savings he will see.

Dave in Denver

Dave Stroman

Btu eater. Dave in Denver

This boiler is down in a pit about 5' below the basement floor so the water would flow through the underground pipes to the detached carriage house. I clocked the gas meter at 750,000 Btu's. The boiler size required for both the main house and the carriage house is 250,000.

The photos show the converison burner. The coal boiler was converted to oil and then later to gas. The flames rolled right out the front of the boiler when it fired. The owner's gas bill over the winter has been over $800 per month.

Boiler Buster has removed the boiler. About 4000 lbs. of cast iron. Installation of 2 Trinity's starts tomorrow. Will post the after photos this weekend.

Dave in Denver

Brad White_66

Dave- $800 or $8,000 per year

I figured the higher number would be more realistic with a beast that size. Just a gut check.

But what a testimonial to the durability of cast iron.

Brad

Brad White_9

You are right- per month.

it does say that now. Makes more sense. Still- cannot wait to see the savings indeed! Awaiting results.. Nice project!

Brad

Constantin

You guys must have very low gas prices....

... $800 buys you about 400 therms around here, which is not unusual for many homes in the dead of winter for the NE. Our 2-bedroom apartment rental steam system used that much once...

The boiler looks like it belonged on a steam locomotive. Like Brad, I am amazed in what good condition it is. Perhaps it's duty cycle in Denver is not that harsh? I thought you guys got some pretty cold conditions/snow/etc. yet this boiler is showing no signs of stress like the usual leaks, condensation streaks, etc.

I look forward to seeing your install of the Trinities... and some time spent with George of Rhomar Water Systems may pay off in spades. Keep them boilers happy!

Steamhead (in transit)

That's an old Spencer #2

a water-tube, magazine-feed design. The door at the top center was where you shoveled the coal in, and it fed down into the fire bed from there. It was one of the better boilers you could get at that time.

Notice the split sections- it was cast that way for easier handling and set-up. But it still must have been a bear to put together in that pit! A similar boiler starred in my Hot Water Stumper article, but that one had headers that joined the two sides.

I'll bet when that gas burner was put in, they just filled the entire grate area of that boiler with burner heads. Not the most efficient way, but fuel was cheap then.


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Dave Stroman

Now that is an interesting bit of info. I thought it was strange to have the door at the top. Must have been a pain to fill the boiler from a ladder.

Dave in Denver

Ted_13

just a word of warning

Dave, to quote NYT rep; "If you bring all that crud and puke from the old system piping back to the new boiler and coat the inside of the heat exchanger, you void your warranty."I think in the manual they suggest cleaning the system piping out with some chemicals.

S Ebels

Extremely good point

I would invest some serious time into cleaning the old system and piping out before connecting ANY of the new condensers. A good strainer or even a filter of some kind that could later be removed would also be something that I would do. The Trinity's have a very low water content and small passageways that will plug quick, I don't care how fast you're moving the water through the HX.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Mark Hunt

Ditto


Not to sound like a commercial here, but....Rhomar Hydro-Solve is AMAZING!

I would connect the supply and return together and put a pump in between. Power flush the system for the loose stuff, add Hydro-Solve and let it flow through the system for a while. Dump, flush, repeat as needed.

Cost will be higher, but you will be protecting the customer's investment.

Mark H

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bob elmore

heat exchanger

weil recommends using a "maxi-flo" heat exchanger when
using their "ultra" in this sort of change-out.
'

Larry (from OSHA)

$800 is not so bad

when compared to what I read in todays paper.

http://www.startribune.com/539/story/408033.html

Sorry, I should know how to make links by now. It just amazes me that houses, no matter how big, are apparently built with no regard to energy efficiency. ($1675/month to heat a McMansion)

It will be very interesting to see how alternative fuels will create a niche market for heating various spaces. Corn burners have been around for some time, but it looks like this fellow is serious about creating a market. I think I'll be impressed when he comes out with a modulating unit.

Regarding that monster in the pit, I agree with Constantine that it looks pretty good all things considered. I look forward to the "after" pics and what the actual savings turn out to be.

Larry

S Ebels

The sad thing is

All this stuff, from the home delivery of pellets to boilers that are not only modulating but also condensing are already on the market in Europe!! For years!! And we can't get them here because of UL listings and fear of liability issues in our good old lawyer driven US of A.
Makes me mad that we can't get this equipment here but the Euro's don't think the market is right for $8,000+ modulating/condensing pellet boilers. I e-mailed a company named "Froeling"......German or Austrian I think. They have some really cool looking stuff but aren't interested in sending it over here. Bummer!!

Larry (from OSHA)

$8000 for a heating appliance

is most likely more than even the most diehard enviromentalist is willing to pay. At least until fuel costs go well above where they are currently. The American mindset is, I believe, slow to change. As I fill my car with $3.00 per gallon gas, and try to squeek 21 miles per gallon out of my car, I'm getting passed by lots of everyday people that still have lead foot syndrome. We are slow to change our ways and only the pain at the pump and pocketbook from home heating costs will foster the changes needed. I listened on the radio today about all this energy crisis business and never once heard anyone say anything about conservation. Jimmy Carter was right all along. If we reduced usage by just a little, I suspect there would be no issues.

Larry

Dave Stroman

I showed up at the job site today to a purple boiler room. I owner said he was going to paint it....well, if he is happy, I am happy.

Yes, we always install a strainer. Not sure I agree with the cleaning of the system. What could be in the water to "coat" the heat exchanger? Sure I could flush out as much of the iron oxide as I can, but what will prevent it from coming back? Maybe I am way off base here, but I think a strainer to keep the chunks out of the boiler and pumps will be fine.

I have attached a photo of the PVC terminations at the top of the brick chimney. You can see the way we suspended the 4 pipes with riser clamps. This will hold the pipes until the hole gets bricked up in the basement. I have never liked the looks of the PVC sticking out of the top, so I came up with the idea of the metal chimney cover.

Dave in Denver

Ted_13

don't say I didn't warn ya

i'm telling you Dave I know these guys and if the boiler showed up on the job site without crud on the inside of the heat exchanger then they are not responsible. The internal passages on these Ginoni heat exchangers is very slim and the material is not that thick. Atached to a system like that strainer or not I'll bet you $50 you don't get 10 years out of the heat exchangers. To be honest I would never install one of those boilers directly to any system that has steel pipe in it. Just my opinion.

Steamhead (in transit)

Dave, what they're talking about

is the oily sludge you sometimes find in these systems. You're more likely to see it if you disconnect a radiator and tip it up slightly. Cast-iron is very forgiving of this stuff, but the newer boilers might not be.

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Maine Doug_34

Those burners

Wow, what an incredible burner for an outdoor cooker. Bring on that pig and sauce....

Dave Stroman

Believe me, I know about the black crud that runs out of the radiators when you tip them up. I never thought that it was oily, just rust that collected at the bottom.

I have had problems with pumps in these "dirty" systems. Taco pumps seem to work better because once the cartridges are full of water, the water stays there. With grunfos, there is a constant flow of water through the cart. The iron oxide can interfere with that flow.

I think it unlikely that I would be able to flush out all that sludge. Perhaps chemicals would break it down. But over time would not it come back? It would be a shame if these boilers prove not to be compatable with high mass, high iron systems. They seem like such a good match. I wonder if some sort of dirt seperator would work. Something that you could blow down once in a while. I have seen them in magazines.

Dave in Denver

Brad White_67

I echo Mark Hunt's Rhomar Experience

HydroSolv and the 922 did a great job on my formery iron-piped monoflow system, now all copper but with steel Runtal and cast iron radiators. Water is as clear as you would like.

I also have a Neptune Filter Feeder with a 10 micron bag filter into which I tossed a few rare earth magnets to harvest any stray iron. So far few fuzzies.

What I have not yet tried is the Spirovent Dirt Separator. Similar to their air separator having the "brush" inside it, but with a blow-down. I wonder if the regular Spirovents, even the Juniors, do similar duty by default and if piped correctly? Some of the larger ones are "dirt and air". I have to imagine that they are more effective than 20 mesh strainers but have no direct experience to back that up.