The Hole in my Bucket gets Smaller (Steamhead)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Steamhead: That ALL sounds familiar. Especially interesting (to me) is the house staying 65-69 with weather 42-80 for a couple of weeks. That's rather similar to what we experienced in my area for about a month before summer HIT BIG TIME about 10 days ago. Take the outdoor temp range down to 34 (for a few mornings) and the indoor down to 62 or so (same few mornings) for the differences.

Are you willing to experiment a bit next season? I'll send you my fuel consumption estimate program with instructions.

You only need to provide one thing:

----Outdoor temperature data from a reliable, nearby source. Hourly at a minimum. Find the source and I'll write the conversion program to be used by my program.

You must also be able to determine your fuel consumption for a given period with quite high accuracy. I have ZERO familiarity with oil but since you have a tank it must be similar to MPG in a car. Start with a full tank. Make notations. Use some. Re-fill. Make notations.

I have no idea of your tank size, but it's almost certain to hold "more" now than before. Best if you could top off 3-4 times during the season, but economics may prevent. I certainly understand the economic portion of the equation--I REALLY wanted to run the old boiler for head-to-head this year but I genuinely could not afford.

Steamhead (in transit)

What would one use

for the outdoor temp source? NWS's monitoring stations in the Baltimore area (Inner Harbor, BWI Airport, Martin's Airport) are so far away from the house I doubt they'd be accurate. Maybe I'd have to set up one myself?

I can get degree-day figures online if needed. I've been using these for some customers' fuel-consumption tracking projects, but this sounds a whole lot more exacting.

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Brad White_77

Brad White_77

Weather Data

Frank,

The attached is all I could find for Maryland within USAF data. Baltimore/Washington, Andrews AFB and Patuxent NAS. All seem "summerly similar" and the winters have low temperatures (median of extreme lows) well above zero. Design temperatures in the lowest percentiles are in the 5-10 degree range.

Where I am in Boston, I am actually about halfway between Logan Airport (on the water, an absurd place for a city to use for weather reference!) and Great Blue Hill weather station in Milton. My weather locally is right about between the two. When it is 85 at Logan AP it might be 92 at Blue Hill and my house will be about 88. When it is 7 degrees at Logan it might be zero at Blue Hill and sure enough I will be around four degrees.

I too believe in micro-climates.

Anyway, see the attached for what they are worth.

Steamhead (in transit)

Thanks Brad

those stations are all south of Baltimore. The closest one is BWI airport. BWI, Martins and Inner Harbor are close enough to the Bay as to possibly affect their readings relative to the house, and I believe PAX is too. We may end up averaging these stations if we can't find something better.

I remember seeing what looks like a small remote monitoring station (a.k.a. RAWS[?], but I could be wrong about what it is) near here, but could not find it on NOAA's RAWS pages.

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Brad White_77

Is there a Delaware or Virginia

location that might be more representative, Frank? Let me know.

My own house had a NWS station within it until last year. Allows us "weather nuts" to participate. These micro stations would report data by modem (sooo....1996...) to fill in the patchwork quilt that is weather reporting. So they understand it is all location, location, location....

Unknown

April Showers

Do you know where I can get more information about this "roof sprinkler" system. I've thought of rigging something like it on my house. It might pay off; what's a little water compared to AC costs?

CC.Rob

WX data at Towson Univ Geography Dept

I believe that the Geography Dept at Towson Univ maintains an automated weather station. That should be close enough. Not sure if it's presently on-line, but they should be able to get you what data you need, at least periodically. Dept office is 410-704-2973. The gentleman that, at least formerly, used to maintain the weather station web page is Martin Roberge, mroberge at towson dot edu.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I'll do some searching Steamhead--for published sources and for something to use at your location.

While I'm doing that, you might check local TV station websites. I've seen some that provide historic data from their own sensors.

Larry Weingarten

Geoff

Try a Google search for "mist cooling". There is a generous abundance of info ;~)

Yours, Larry

Steamhead (in transit)

The April Showers system

was heavily advertised in the late-1940s editions of The ASHVE Guide. If you have or have access to one, look in the back section where the ads are. I know I have several here, let me know if you need me to scan it for you.

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Patrick North

Radiant barrier?

I'm looking in to a radiant barriar product instead (brand new 40yr black shingles- whoops.) Cheaper than sprinklers, and zero upkeep. Anyone have experience with these?
Patrick

Jerry_15

I posted this earlier but nobody seemed to care. I used the foil bubble product that I use for radiant, and you use in your windshield, on my attic re-model up against the roof nailers between the rafters. Staggering difference on heat intrusion. With my infrared gun the surface temp. 50 degrees and more between the roof and downside of insulation only 5/16 thick. It's not about r-value. I added insulation, but without a reflective barrier, that only acts as a heat sink that re-radiates at night. Good luck.

Patrick North

Wow!

Will definitely give it a try. Any opinion on brand? They all seem pretty similar.
Thanks,
Patrick

Jerry_15

Not really on the brand, best price is probably the best. The foil double bubble is probably the cheapest, I'm not sure what the advantage of having foil on both sides is. I'm sure the manufacturers will be happy to enlighten you. It is awesome though. Good luck

Mad Dog_2

Is it too late for PV shingles,,,,Frank?

Mad Dog

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Steamhead (in transit)

Not ruling out some form of solar

but at least on the top portion I need to be able to walk on the shingles. That's the safest way to maintain the gutters.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Pat, also try

one of the recently introduced roof paints. So far the lighter-colored ones have a great record of reducing summer heat gain.

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Jerry_15

Just a PS, I put it in the walls too where there sun exposure, before insulating. Truly amazing, and I guaranty you won't have any leftovers on the roll for long. Put a piece on the floor and lay on it. If the homeless ever figgured this out they'd be stacked like cordwood on the sidewalk.

Wayco Wayne_2

About the radiant barrier

in the attic. I heard it wears out the shingles faster than normal since the harmful rays of the sun are passing through the shingles twice. Something to be aware of. WW

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D107

new roof paint website

http://www.coolroofs.org/aboutthecrrc_owners.html

also, Jerry, just be clear, sounds like you didn't use the dbl bubble with foil on both sides, and that it was 5/16" thick. The stuff featured on http://www.radiantbarrier.com/tempshield_double_bubble_double_.htm
is 3/16" thick.

I know the usual thing people have been doing is the polyicinine foam under the roof eaves and inside gable walls if they choose the unvented attic/conditioned space alternative. Buildingscience.com says there is some extra wear and tear on the shingles but not more, if I recollect, than a 17 degree difference. They seem to recommend a layer of insulation ABOVE the sheathing below the shingles.

This bubble sounds alot cheaper than the polyicinine foam. I'll have to look at your earlier posts on this.

thanks,

David

D107

correction on my double bubble post--it's 3/8\" thick

TempShield™ Double Bubble Foil is two layers of 3/16" barrier bubble film laminated between two layers of foil. so total is 3/8".

Jerry_15

Two passes of harmful rays of the sun, one going through the wood and tarpaper twice and then hitting the back of shingle is making the outer surface deteriorate faster? I think we're getting a little deep here. Are we talkin Gamma rays or what? On that note, I'd rather have it cookin the shingles than me. Someone had posted about the bubble foil bubble product but I think having the foil on the outside is the way to go (although I heard that they will give you a free roll if you can say it fast ten times). Remember we're lookin for reflective value, not r-value. Hold a piece of tinfoil an inch away from your face and you'll get the picture. The two manufacs I know are Astrofoil and reflectics, and I'm sure they have a snappy web-site that will explain everything in excruciating detail. All I know for sure is it works; wicked good.

Steamhead (in transit)

WW, that might be

simply due to heat. Excessive heat can soften asphalt shingles, accelerating deterioration. Which is another good reason to ventilate the attic or rafter spaces.

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