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Hot water heater or Indirect water heater
Ron Schroeder
Member Posts: 998
How difficult would it be for you to change from steam to hot water for the entire heating system? That would give you some more options, easier service and probably less fuel usage.
By the way, an indirect doesn't always have to be hooked up so you can't have heat while the indirect is recovering. It depends on boiler capacity, heat load, indirect load and if the controls are set up with DHW priority. Some controls can also be set up with a timed priority that shifts back to heat after a preset time even if the DHW has not fully recovered. Most of the systems that I build are specifically designed for both heat and hot water at the same time.
Ron
By the way, an indirect doesn't always have to be hooked up so you can't have heat while the indirect is recovering. It depends on boiler capacity, heat load, indirect load and if the controls are set up with DHW priority. Some controls can also be set up with a timed priority that shifts back to heat after a preset time even if the DHW has not fully recovered. Most of the systems that I build are specifically designed for both heat and hot water at the same time.
Ron
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Comments
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I am presently installing a new steam boiler (Burnham or weil-mclain). I am also replacing the hot water heater. I live in the NY area (westchester, NY) and I am wondering if an indirect hot water heater will suit my needs. My only concern is during the summer months. Are these units efficient, I need a high recovery device so I figured indirect is the way to go. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Michael Lavastida0 -
What is your type of fuel?
Ron0 -
Gas0 -
Cold water heater
> I am presently installing a new steam boiler
> (Burnham or weil-mclain). I am also replacing the
> hot water heater. I live in the NY area
> (westchester, NY) and I am wondering if an
> indirect hot water heater will suit my needs. My
> only concern is during the summer months. Are
> these units efficient, I need a high recovery
> device so I figured indirect is the way to go.
> Any suggestions or advice would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
> Lavastida
Depends on .... What size boiler you need to heat the home ? How much hot water do you need? What size( hight & flue size) is the chimney?Is the water supply high in minerials?0 -
Cold water heater
> I am presently installing a new steam boiler
> (Burnham or weil-mclain). I am also replacing the
> hot water heater. I live in the NY area
> (westchester, NY) and I am wondering if an
> indirect hot water heater will suit my needs. My
> only concern is during the summer months. Are
> these units efficient, I need a high recovery
> device so I figured indirect is the way to go.
> Any suggestions or advice would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael
> Lavastida
Depends on .... What size boiler you need to heat the home ? How much hot water do you need? What size( hight & flue size) is the chimney?Is the water supply high in minerials?
One would need to know to make a wise choice....0 -
i need about 520 sq feet of steam (around 200k btu), the water is not high in minerals. the current boiler i am replacing is rated for something like 400k btu and on top of that it is a gas conversion (200k btu burner) so its very inefficient. Any other helpful info necessary? Help me make a wise choice...0 -
gas0 -
Heaters
What is your hot water needs? How many gallons in what time?0 -
here is the Plan
To be the most efficient, I would say put in a seperate 50 gallon hot water heater like a AO smith, they have some very high recovery models, that way you do not run the boiler year round. You need to tell us how many bathrooms are in the house and stuff, showers or tubs, this will all affect the useage and size of a hot water heater. But I would go gas boiler, and seperate hot water heater, that way your not maintaining water temperature in the boiler year round and lossing on fuel. I am in westchester too, if you want someone to take a look0 -
3.5 bath, contact me via email so that I can get you my info..
Thanks.0 -
Water needs
You need to figure your largest hot water load.A 80 gal bathtub? Three daughters taking a 20 min shower at the same time? And two showers have a 2.5 gallons per min flow rate while the third had a 5 gal-min rate. A high volume Shower with body spays and large heads?
Once you figure what is needed a system can be built.
Chimney size will dictate how many btu input we can fire at once.
Sometimes a indirect comes in handy with a small chimney. as long as the boiler is big enough for the hot water load. You don't want to over size a heating boiler too much for a large hot water load either.
One thing to remember is with a indirect is when the boiler is producing hot water it will not produce heat....Can it go that long ?
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1 adult taking a bath (about 40-50 gal I guess), 1 taking a shower and then usually another taking a shower immediately following. Not sure about the flow rate of the showers, but I would say greater than 2.5 gallons. Heres my main issue: I currently have a coil that supplies plenty of hot water during the winter, in the summer its much less (due to the boiler being off). Since I am replacing the boiler I want to have the same amount of hot water especially during the winter months. The main reason I considered an indirect unit was becuase of its high recovery rates. My current water heater is a 50 Gallon.
thanks in advance for your help/advice..0 -
Size
> 1 adult taking a bath (about 40-50 gal I guess),
> 1 taking a shower and then usually another taking
> a shower immediately following. Not sure about
> the flow rate of the showers, but I would say
> greater than 2.5 gallons. Heres my main issue: I
> currently have a coil that supplies plenty of
> hot water during the winter, in the summer its
> much less (due to the boiler being off). Since I
> am replacing the boiler I want to have the same
> amount of hot water especially during the winter
> months. The main reason I considered an indirect
> unit was becuase of its high recovery rates. My
> current water heater is a 50 Gallon.
>
> thanks in
> advance for your help/advice..
Flow rate can be figured using a 5 gal bucket and a time device.Open the hot and cold full through the shower head in to the bucket. if it fills half way in a min you have a 2.5 gpm .To the top it's a 5gpm flow rate.
A efficant unit could produce around 1.5 to 2 gpm of hot water recovery per 100k of input...
I will first size the tank for the tub. Even though you use 2 parts hot per 1 cold for a avage mix.We know a storage is go for 80 percent of its volume.So for 50 gal tub we need a 50 gal storage.
Say your shower heads restrictor was pulled and now its a full 5gpm.. A 15 min showerwill need a 75 gallon storage tank. A 2.5 gpm would need a 40 gallon.
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Size
Flow rate can be figured using a 5 gal bucket and a time device.Open the hot and cold full through the shower head in to the bucket. if it fills half way in a min you have a 2.5 gpm .To the top it's a 5gpm flow rate.
A efficant unit could produce around 1.5 to 2 gpm of hot water recovery per 100k of input...
I will first size the tank for the tub. Even though you use 2 parts hot per 1 cold for a avage mix.We know a storage is go for 80 percent of its volume.So for 50 gal tub we need a 50 gal storage.
Say your shower heads restrictor was pulled and now its a full 5gpm.. A 15 min showerwill need a 75 gallon storage tank. A 2.5 gpm would need a 40 gallon.
The recovery of the 75 gallon tank after depleation , using your 200 input boiler is around 20 min.
Need faster recovery you need more input.Move away from a indirect but verfiy chimney can handle more input...
You can also increase tank size or add more then one tank to handle the load....
You can lower volume by changing shower head.
See where we are going?
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I'll measure the chimney but as it stands, I have a hot water heater and boiler, the boiler was rated for over 350k btu, so the chimney should be ok. I guess all the confusion I'm experiencing is that I was under the impression that indirect have better recovery rates. I am primarily concerned with someone taking a shower and bath at the same time. Especially when one runs the bath, the shower will usually be a short one (cause it gets cold). Since I have a coil in present boiler hot water is not an issue during the winter, with the new boiler, I'm not sure if i'm going to have a coil going to the water heater, so I won't have nearly as much hot water as I had with the coil...see my dilemma?
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some concerns on choice
A indirect installed on a steam system using the condensate to heat up .The problem is the wear and tear on the cirulators.You can add a second heat exchanger but at a extra cost and a loss of recovery.
With a lot of steam leaks the condensate will muddy.The mud will insulate the indirect internal heat excanger and lower recovery. Would need to be flushed or better yet fix the leaks.
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So I guess steam is not ideal for an indirect water heater. I think that fact alone will affect my purchase. Thanks for your help.0 -
Let's not guess and risk the unthinkable...
And don't assume the work of the past..Have your contractor verify the capacity...0 -
Steam and Indirects
I've installed an indirect DHWtank on many steam residential boilers. I use the Viessmann V300 tank, either a 53g or 79g. The Viessmann tank will outlast any other tank in this application. A bronze or stainless pump is used and the piping is taken off below the water line of the system. A Tekmar 150 setpoint control is used to control the tank temps. It's very important that the boiler is "blown down" regularly (at least 1x per month)...see Dan's books on steam. Make sure the contractor has previous experience with this application!! It's easy to pipe it incorrectly.
If the tank is installed correctly, recovery of the tank is very fast...usually under 10 minutes.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
I guess my major issue is, even though i live in a major metropolitan area (20 minutes outside NYC) I haven't found anyone who is completey competent in this area. They either have no experience with steam or they have experience but have outdated knowledge. Really frustrating...0 -
Only as good as its input.....
They sell 5 gpm coils in 150k boilers........ but the boiler can only produce 2gpm
Energy in ,energy out.....
Have you checked into wall hung tankless? Lots of opptions .
High volume is not impossable.It only costs money...0 -
I didn't want to go tankless, I don't like the drop in water pressure as demand goes up. I am already buying a new boiler, in addition to central air. I would rather not add to my expense at this point.0 -
I inquired about converting to hot water, but changing my one pipe steam to hot water would be cost prohibitive. I am already doing so many upgrades to my house that a hot water conversion would break the bank.0
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