Attaching extruded aluminum plates

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

it's working well for you. We've had nothing but good luck with Hitachi tools in general.

When researching which fastening method was best, I did just as Hot Rod mentioned above. I took some 3/4 plywood and some original Thermofin to our local fastener center and tried everything we could. The information we gained from them was invaluable when choosing a stapler to recommend. I encourage anyone looking at investing in a stapler or nailer to do the same.

Look forward to many successful projects. Thanks, Gary.

-Andrew

Darin Cook_3

Best attachment method

What would you recommend for a nail or staple gun and what size staples or nails? Anyone prefer screwing them into place? Thank you for your input.









Darin

John Felciano

Track attachment

We have always screwed our track up with automatic screw guns,but many guys use 16 gauge staplers or air nailers to attach.I think on our next track job I will try the air stapler as screws are a bit slower and more costly.

Floyd

Doin' a job right now....

4,000 plates and screwing every one of them... that ensures that they are all tight to the floor and hopefully halfway straight......can't imagine trying to get the guys to hit those little holes with a nail gun, keep them straight and also making sure they are tight up there.....some good things just take time.....then I can't complain with this job.... it's a T&M deal........life is good.... for now.....

Floyd

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Attachment methods

Extruded plates can be attached in a few ways:

1) Automatic screw gun. The Grabber Superdrive works well with #8 x 3/4" self-drilling screws.
Pro: Very secure attachment
Con: The replacement phillips bits are not inexpensive.

2) Pneumatic staple gun. There are quite a few brands of staplers out there. The most common size staple is 16ga 7/16" x 5/8" leg.
Pro: Ease of installation. Secure attachment.
Con: Staples seem to "dimple" the plates more than other methods. Depth of drive can be difficult to set and maintain.

Hitachi® N5008AC/P

This has become our preferred model. It does not jam frequently and is very durable.

SENCO® SKS

The Senco stapler works, but due to the heavy demand of penetrating aluminum plates, this lighter duty stapler does not have a long lifespan. It jams more frequently than I would consider acceptable.

SPOTNAILS® XS6650

Have not tried this stapler yet, but it appears to be somewhere between the Senco and the Hitachi for quality. The depth of drive adjustment is better than any I have seen in a 7/16" crown stapler.

PASLODE® 3200-S16P

This stapler is very highly recommended by our local distributor. It appears to be very well made, and does not have the plastic parts the other have. The drawback is that it uses 1/2" width staples.

3) Pneumatic roofing nailer. The shortest roofing nails I have found are 3/4" length. They do not penetrate 23/32 subfloor, even when used with .050in thickness plates.
Pro: Ease of installation. Secure attachment. Accurate depth of drive adjustment. Widely available.
Con: Nailer is larger and heavier than stapler. Nails are more expensive and coils are bulkier than staples. Dimpling of plates is less than with staples. I believe this is because the nails are pointed rather than chisel tipped like staples.

All of these methods work. The screw gun requires the most work during installation. The staplers are lightest and easiest to maneuver in tight joist bays. The nailer gives what I consider to be a slightly better contact surface than the staplers because of the reduced dimpling of the plates. Of course only plates attached with screws can be removed without destroying the plate.

Hope this helps
-Andrew

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Pneumatic

staplers or nailer will easily double productivity. Two guys can install well over 1000 feet of plate in an 8 hour work day. The stapler pays for itself with the first job.

-Andrew

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Keeping plates straight

This is a prototype tool for installation of extruded plates. Push one side up against the joist and it holds the plate the correct distance for the desired spacing.

One guy can easily install plates with this tool, and the width of the tool holds the plate parallel with the joist. The plastic construction keeps it "lubricated" where it holds the channel.

There's really no need for the holes in the plates. Both nails and staples penetrate the thin aluminum easily.

-Andrew

hr

We switched

from coil nailers to staplers this year. The nailer were getting tired, we bought them used and got a few years out of them.

The Senco SNS is the middle sized Senco. It easily handles the heavy gauge ThermoFin, it is built for assembling oak pallets! Plenty of power and we even had to turn the air pressure down on the compressor!

You can see the hold strength where plumbers removed some of the plates.

The largest Senco is way overkill and hard to find staples for.

Be sure to use the Senco brand staples. We tried generic brands and had problems with them wrinkling. Also the galv coated are bettter than glue coated.

Invest in a swivel for the gun and a nice lightweight flexible FlexSteel air hose. Much less weight, and tug, when working overhead all day.

Also invest in a palm nailer to drive the tube into the plates. A huge labor saver. Get the best ear protection you can buy, and warn any subs working above you

We tried several automatic screw guns and found they would plug frequently when drilling overhead through the unpunched extruded plates. The aluminim shavings would jam the feed mechanism. Perhaps for installing plates on the floor? Fairly expensive for the tool and the bullets.

Most tool stores will let you demo some guns. Take a handful of plates with you and some hardwood to drive them into, for a real test.

hot rod



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hr

Another placement tool

I can snap this midstream in a pair of 8 foot long plates, hold the spacing and eyeball the edge to the joist. this allows me to singlehandedly installl the long plates. an adjustable spacing version would be nice. It is basically 1/2" EMT condiut egg shaped for a tight fit.

Bad handle design, however, hard on your hands.

hot rod

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Unknown

Hrmph. anything oilless other than the SKS that you've tried andrew?

Unknown

Screws VS staples

I've allways used screws for my plates. I recently bought the Hitachi 7/16" stapler (as ALH describes above) and there is NO WAY I would ever go back to screws. I'm doing a rather large job right now that has both Climate Panels and extruded plates and the air stapler is te only way to go. I find that I can use two screws to align the panels/tracks and then, follow up with the stapeler VERY quickly. Much faster than screws. I have also found that the stapler makes for a better contact to the plywood if adjusted right. I REALLY like HR's rig for two plates and am going to try to build one tomorrow to speed production further. Thanks HR:-)

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Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Those

are all I have tried. If you discover any others that may work, please let me know.

-Andrew

Unknown

I forgot to mention,,,

a HUGE thank you Andrew at Radiant Engineering for reccomending the pneumatic stapeler I bought last week.

The (Hitachi) stapler has been flawless WRT stapeling Dale's (the only real) extruded plates as well as the dry system (Climate Panel/Quik Trak)I'm using. 1" staples do both applications perfectly. VERY strong fasteners and I'll never screw plates or QT again.



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Tom_35

We used hr's method

hr posted a picture of his "jig" several months ago and we built a slightly different one using a 2 x 4 that was notched out for the 1/2" conduit and had the handle on it like Andrew shows on his current picture. This took very little time to build and cut our installation time in half compared to what we had done previously with no jig and screwing the plates up. We shot staples and had no problem with the plates being tight to the floor.

The jig allowed us to line up the next plate as well so we had no problem with going into the next plate.

Tom Atchley

Unknown

Floyd,

Remember that TV commercial of the mid 70's: " HEY !!Mikey?" "Try it Mikey!.You'll liked it."

If what I hear you are doing is "screwing every one of them" over 4K then all I can tell you is that I've been there and done that (more like 2-3,000) Staples not screws for me from now on for not only the labor savings but quality of contact as well. Like Andrew said you would be wise to experiment in your shop/backyard and find out for yourself. Stapls ROCK over screws. IMHO.

Screwing is something left for another place and not fastening of plates or some dry systems;-)

IMHO

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Wayco Wayne_2

Good info

We just switched from screws to a Hitachi nail gun. Why did I wait so long. Much better and easier on the arms. You could get carpel Tunnel from squeezing the trigger of a drill that many times. WW

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