Some old work from Germany

J.C.A._3

Having spent some time at ISH this spring, I got to see the differences in our heating strategies, and I am quite impressed with the Euro designs. The fact that most heating appliances become a "furniture like product", having to be placed in what would be considered living space makes the mind wander to another mindset.

Mario, that is a fine install. I wish I could show my customers how nice things that are so important to their comfort can also look nice in their homes.

Seeing a chimney in use is a real rarity. Almost everything I saw used it as a chase for the new flue piping. Chris

GermanPlumber

Found those old pictures about a system I installed in Germany in 2001. You can tell I am a littel bored tonight, lol,
Mario

gerry gill

looks nice,

but when you said--old-- i thought you mean't before B-17's.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

GermanPlumber

Thanks Gerry, lol no I did not mean that old.
Have a great Sunday!!!

Ted_9

I wish there was an exchange program were I could work in Germany for some time.


PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

clammy

nice work

Nice work mario i really dig the pipe insulation i was in germany a few times years ago and enjoy checking out there quality workmanship .Really liked there strick codes on insulaion and yearly inspection of heating equipt and chimmey systems .I guess we in the US will see this may be in another 20 years by then the cost of fuel will be high enough to warrant install of complete systems the european or better yet the german way .In this country all the spec homes builder construct are just built for profit with the cheapest heating systems i would say at least 90% are hot air and installed like garbage on anothe r note i don't even bid spec or new homes there all hot air or the cheapest boiler systems with basa board .if you whwere to discuss heating systems with the future owner the gc or buildwer would have you removed from the job .Sorry for the rant great work good luck and peace clammy

hr

So clean!

a true Euro looking install. Nice job, thanks for being bored

Is that a muffler on the venting?

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Hee, hee, hee

... now I'm going to show my age and ask, the B-17 with the pretty spinning propellors, or the one with the new-fangled jet engines? :-P

Mario, I like the install because the pipes are plumb, the insulation thick, and everything is pretty open and acessible. Even though the pipes are probably capable of holding themselves in the air, it is nice to see you use brackets to keep them just where you want them.

Another thing I haven't seen much in the US is what I presume is a muffler at the end of the Buderus boiler. Is it offered only in Germany? How effective is it?

Channeling cables into a wire-run conduit is another visual nicety that is quite rare in the US. I actually prefer wires in BX out in the open because it makes trouble-shooting a bit easier, but that's just me.

I presume that the large pump block is the water-temp-mixing station that Buderus recently brought over to the US? I like the design and the plug-in simplicity, particularly for a small boiler like the G115 that needs return water temp protection.

Once again, a very nice install!

Ray Landry

love that buderus blue expansion tank. Nice work.Is that a flue heat exchanger?

Constantin

Yup...

... particularly when one considers how house-high chimneys in the EU are becoming a thing of the past in new construction. It's much simpler to put the beast into the attic, conserve space, expense, etc.

I also like the EU focus on making appliances "pretty enough" so as to become visually invisible in most domestic settings. Between their much smaller size (due to the lower heat loss of most EU domiciles), the design, etc. they start to blend in just like a dishwasher.

The only remaining trick then is how to avoid very elaborate piping/pumping strategies that take up room and create clutter. Here the ZCP panels and the like may come to the rescue, though I think the main reason the EU has it easier in this regard is because of it's dominating reliance on panel radiators with TRVs... If you don't need water with 3 different water temperatures, life becomes a whole lot simpler...

J.C.A._3

Ray,

That is a muffler for the boiler. Buderus has them available here also, and they work! Quiet although a bit large. Chris

GermanPlumber

Hi Constantin and thanks for your praise. You are right it is a muffler in the exhaust and they work very well in bringing down noice in the flue. Since I work here and since I found a MC/BX cutter I love that type of wire. We dont have it in Germany. The mixing block comes from Buderus and I can flange on 3 zones which makes it much easier and faster. Thanks again,
Mario

GermanPlumber

Hi Ray no it is a muffler to bring down noice in the flue! Have a great Sunday, Mario

marc

oil filter

one question?

is that a oil filter with a tiger loop? nice work!
Marc

bob_44

Question, Mario?

Are most of the homes in Germany solid masonary construction with little or no insulation in the walls? You do beautiful work. bob

Cosmo_3

muffler

Beautiful install!!!

Can that muffler be installed vertically?

Cosmo Valavanis

Dependable P.H.C. Inc.

Constantin

Depends on the age...

...older homes came with little to no insulation, and usually consisted of a mix of masonary along the outer edges and wood inside. It's one of the reasons that the bombed-out towns of Germany had so many facades still standing after WWII.

... nowadays, it is not unusual to see ICF-construction with 4"+ of styro on the outside with stucco as a permanent cover. On the inside, a thinner layer of styro allows the easy routing of electrical and other small wires before being covered as well. Larger pipes and the like naturally need pre-cast transitions.

These homes are usually very comfortable, as the thermal mass of the concrete helps dampen temperature swings. Condensing heating appliances, panel rads, and TRVs round out the picture.

ScottMP

Constantine

The main reason the EU has it easier is the dominate size of the homes over there have one zone. Much simpler to provide one zone with constant circ. This is why the new Buderus boiler is so popular over there is its simplicity.

The majority of homes I've seen don't have multiply temps since the size of the house dosn't demand it. Germany dosn't have a lot of MC Mansions like we do.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

It's not just the McMansions...

... it's the dependence on TRVs and radiators that make zoning with anything but one loop unneccessary. They really are after a KISS system, where we keep complicating things with dampers, zones, and the like. Their ΔP sensing pumps make multiple-TRV implementation not only easy but economical as well

Plus, considering how well the new construction in the EU is insulated these days, it's pretty hard not to keep the place warm/cool/whatever. It's one reason that air conditioning is so rare in the EU overall. Buildings with thick skins can tolerate hot spells for a lot longer than the thin-skinned office towers/heat sinks that the US calls its norm.

Anyway, the only downside to the TRVs is the appearance. That's what killed it in our house, as the Boss didn't like the thought of the Danfoss FHV sticking out of the wall in every room of the house.

...oh, and lest I forget, the thought of blowing 150BTU/(ft² x hr) to keep the driveway clear and snow-blower in the shed is simply unthinkable. Granted, the EU climate is, for the most part, much less extreme than the climate in the US (maritime vs. continental) but heated driveways are, for most Europeans, nothing but a show of decadence... and arrogance.

Mr. Gillies, do the Scots have heated driveways? I doubt we'd see such a system anywhere but near critical care infrastructure like hospitals in the EU but would like to confirm with those that live with more extreme snow conditions than the majority of the EU.