When it comes time to pay the bill..............................

Ken_8

First, the language used in the estimate/proposal/agreement/contract needs to be clear and concise. If you're using those general, standard estimate "forms," you're bound to be jerked around and when it gets ugly, and the courts will interpret and read the "form" in the manner it is structured; namely, with insufficient detail to be enforceable, and you'll be lucky to collect 10-cents on the dollar.

If anyone would like, I will e-mail you our "terms and conditions" and "acceptance" documnets, which after 30+ years in the biz, have never been overturned in any venue.

Second; C.O.D. is NOT an answer. The argument against C.O.D. is detailed in this column written a few years ago.

Here's the link: http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbviews/2003/why_cod_is_bad.asp



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Mad Dog_2

Why do many people make you pull it out of them???

Perhaps its just me, but I repeatedly find that most people are not very forthcoming when it comes time to give you a deposit, a payment, and especially the final balance. I'm not talking about strangers either or people who are struggling. The proposals clearly state WHEN we need each payment and how much....the secretary reminds them before we come, and then here we are again:" uh, Mrs Smith......could we please get that check".....'oh sure...uh let me call my husband at work.....oh he has the check book...oh we didn't get to the bank....oh, your really going to be finished today? Do I HAVE to pay you today....et al.' I have posted about this in the past, and got good advice on being clearer with people. We have, and it has gotten a little better, but its still a problem. We don't want to come off really pushy, but its becoming very annoying...especially when you have vendors and mortgages to pay and promises to keep......and then you get.....Can I "get you" during the week? These are NOt situations where we have not completed our end, either. Looking for similar experiences. Mad Dog

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Geo_5

Payment

Try as I do to receive payments on Credit cards MadDog. a few lines in the contract that state any grievance must be in writing.When they stop payment on a check your up the creek.Atleast you have a fighting chance w/ the credit card company when everythings in writing.I offer a small discount or throw in a faucet when they use the card.No payment No show with me...it's that simple.

A.J.

It is the same all over

not only with me but the other contractors in my area.It's just my opinion but as fuel prices keep ongoing up it's going to get worse.I was just talking to a fuel dealer at Ron Beck (Burnham boilers) seiminar this last Wensday. A couple of the guys were teasing him about raking the money in becuase of the high oil prices. He responded by telling us how his usual $250,000 A.R. is know at $500,000 just becuase that $300 bad or slow account is know $600 becuase of the higher prices.
Just be the most professional you can be Mad Dog .

don_120

Yep

I used to go there,now its strictly cod.Infact I got rid of
two customer last week because they're the one that call and need service right away but always the ones that are always late making the payment.

No stamp,no envelope,no invoice,no grief,I'm starting to like it.

It like if you go thru the drive thru at mickey D you have to pay before getting the food,why does it have to be any different for us.

Sorry COD only,it gets real easy to say after awhile.

Geo_5

payment

Rite on Don, the "struggling" don't put $80,000 extentions on there homes, and then tell me we've paid you enought George...my uncle's sisters said you charge to much!...take me to court.I really don't want to hear about the "struggling", very slow month for me and my auto mechanic did'nt want to hear it when I needed 4 new tires and a muffler...cash on the bottle head,just waiting for the "softer" side to ring in,tell me how evil I am too seek out the final payment.

S Davis

Fun being in Business

I have been pretty lucky we get 40% down and a signed contract before we show up on anything over $1000.00.
Most of the time if they are willing to pay the down payment they pay through the rest of the job, the only problem we have is contractors not wanting to come up with the down payment or trying to pay less like 20% and then saying they need to get a draw from the owner first, oh well thats being your own boss for you it has it's plusses and minuses.


S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating

Al Corelli

Only our very best service customers are allowed to be billed. Everyone else is COD.

For larger jobs it is half up front, CLEARED IN OUR ACCOUNT, before commencement of work. And the other half ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION. I spell this out in larger type than the rest of the proposal. So far, so good.

For contractors, we have taken to dealing with the homeowner whenever possible. I know of one drywall guy who, after "missing" the GC at his office, accidentally found the GC at a restaurant with his family. The drywall guy asked him outside to talk. They got in his car and talked for a while as the GC cried and paid no attention to the fact that they were four towns away from the restaurant. The drywall guy punches the GC in the nose and leaves him four towns away.

At least the drywall guy's wife was nice enough to drop the GCs family home, and while she was there, the woman gave 10 grand in cash to the other woman and apologized profusely.
Last word from the drywall guy?
"Where's the other thirty grand."
Last word from the GC?
"Can I have another tissue?"

This would all be really funny, except that the GC still owes us 8 grand.

Only in NY.

GermanPlumber

dielectric union

Hello my fellow wetheads,

Since I moved into the US from Germany almost 5 years ago I got more and more used with the design and material used here and never had a problem with building inspectors, I know hard to believe,lol, but there is always a first time. I finished a system last week and had to tie in into some cast iron fittings with Cu. Now the inspector told me I need to install dielectric unions. I told him I agree about dissimilar metal etc but a hydronic system is not a plumbing system means less O2 etc . I also told him that would mean I need a dielectric union on each radiator valve cause I am dealing with dissimilar metal again. He told me the code states he is right. Any thoughts on that?? Thanks and sorry for misspellings.
Mario

Mad Dog_2

Yes, I think its rather ridiculous

AS DO YOU, mARIO, but what does this have to do with people "hanging on" to Our money? Mad Dog

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clammy

mechincal lean

How's that sound mad dawg if your pulling the permits it's only a few dollars more and then when they don't want to pay it's ok because soon or later they will relize that they have a mech lean and it will remain with the title deed and has to be paid before selling of there home .I always go by my gut feeling about peaople and if my gut don't feel right then i won't do the job plus a simple 1/3 on signing 1/3 upon delivery and start of job and 1/3 on completion also state all equiptment is companies untill final payment .Peace and good luck clammy

Rodney Summers

Here in NJ...

It is virtually impossible to execute a mechanic's lien.

To do so in NJ, the lien must be filed BEFORE work begins, costs ~$200 in filing fees, and, must be signed and allowed for by the very person the lien would encumber!

The killer is, it requires a 30-60-day filing period and must be "approved" by an officer of the court, either a County Clerk, or an attorney.

It is also has "teeth" that involve reposession. Who wants to "repo" a boiler?



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Mark Hunt

Send them my way Ken


Appreciate it!

Mark H

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Al Corelli

Please email your terms and conditions.

acorelli@optonline.net

Thank You for sharing.

Rodney Summers

So others may also see,

I've attached the terms and conditions here, as well as the last paragraph of our proposals (which includes a special legal phrase called the parol evidence rule), ACCEPTANCE, which MUST be included.

Please note, I have variations of the T&C doc.s; one for UST decomissioning, one for 275 basement fuel tank decommissioning, etc. We sort of use these as 'macros', making proposal writing fast and specific.

Our proposals separate us from the "crowd." The correct assumption being, if we write the best proposal, we probably will deliver similar work. In fact, that is absolutely correct, 3 out of 4 times.

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Mad Dog_2

Thanks Ken send one my way too

As you know, I don't mince words, and it could not be more clear how much is due and when. To clammy: these are otherwise good people and customers. You WILL get paid....its just that they try to delay as long as possible and I find it very unccomfortable, when the work is done, they approve and love it and its you still have to bring it up. When someone works in my house, I can't wait to pay them. Not saying this is ALL the time , but maybe 50-60%. Mad Dog

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Rodney Summers

It's alrerady there...

Look at the attachments to my post above MD

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Bill Jirik,

collections

On large jobs I always make sure my contracts are crystal clear about what the customer is receiving. Our regular comercial customers know that slow pays dont have emergencies. If I have doubts about a persons check I have them make it payable to cash as this makes it more difficult to put a stop payment on it. Mechanics liens in my state are relatively easy to do and cost under $25 to file. When I do send a collection letter or notice of lien filing it is by certified mail addressed to Mr. and Mrs. and marked IMPORTANT PRIZE NOTIFICATION in a plain envolope from an address they don't know, the wife always signs for it and usaully gives the husband **** for not paying the bill.

jim lockard

MD

I always include the term " First use " in my agreements.
"Final / full payment due at completion and or 1st use".
Meaning that when you crank on the heat, Dawg the bill is due.
That way "Heaven forbid " we should go to court, the question is asked are you or have you enjoyed the heat??
If so then pay up sucker.
I have very little bad debt, but I due extend credit to a fair number of hard working people that need a few fridays to pay the bill.
Best Wishes J.Lockard

jim lockard

In Va

Ken-Once you obtain a judgement you can lien the house. If you would like to move things along a little faster you can request a sheriff's sale where the sheriff will seize an asset and sell it at auction. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Mad Dog_2

Very sly trick - good one

Oh yeah. I make sure they know what they are getting and what they are not getting - no ambiguity. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

That uncomfortable moment.......................................

When you find yourself making small talk so as not to be too rude and pushy....all th while waiting for them to take out the checkbook or cash. That's what Im talking about. We always get paid, but instead of them doing the right thing and saying : "ok, what is the balance or let me pay you now." they make you pull it out of them. I guess I just have to not let it bother me. I always found discussing and collecting money - the hardest part of being in business. Mad Dog

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Jeff Lawrence_24

I had one the other day

I fired up the unit to test it and walked out to go to the van. All I was going to do is write up the bill and get the last of the paperwork in order. The Lady of the house ran out to the van with her checkbook, making sure I wasn't going to leave before I got paid.

That doesn't happen often, that's for sure...

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Mad Dog_2

Nope, but you'll be there for THAT woman

above all the other slow payers. Those people "sweeten" the bitterness that can build up. In fact, you just made me feel better. Mad Dog

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Jeff Lawrence_24

you got that right!

N/M

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