Webster boiler return trap and vent trap problems....HELP

PG

PG

Webster vent trap, return trap, and dirt strainer problems......

I just installed a new steam boiler. The boiler is short cycling due to it reaching pressure fast! I do not hear air coming out of the vent on the old vent trap. The new piping is up to specs. I tried not to change anything. Although.......something is wrong. Not sure if I tied the 1" pipe coming out of the dirt trap in the wrong spot......how critical is this? Also I did reduce the 2" pipe coming out the bottom of the return trap to 1 1/2"......is this critical? Also it is tieed in low but I did throw out the old pipe so I'm not sure if this is tied in properly. The old boiler did have a vapor stat on it. The boiler we removed was probably the second boiler in the house. Heres a wild one....I found a BIG hole on top of a radiator return pipe (basement ceiling location). When system ran a while air, then water gushed out of this hole in surges. Customer never knew it was there. I fixed the pipe. I read Dan's chapter on this subject........but whew....it is confusing. Any suggestions? I'm pretty sure something is piped wrong. How the heck did everything work before with the hole in the system? HELP

Mad Dog_2

Are you a Heating professional, Pat?

Where is the job located? Mad Dog

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PG

Yes I am. The job is in Grosse Pointe , Michigan, juat outside

of Detroit.

Mad Dog_2

OK Pat..........................................................

First of all: the original air vent is probably still in there. YOu need to remove it (have fun) and replace with a nice battery of Gorton #2 main vents on a tree. Hate to tell you at this point, but you really don't need the return trap anymore. It can be cut out and sent to the museum. You don't need the check valves below it either. You definitely want the vaporstat back on their and set down as low as you can. If you post some good pics, we'll be able to help better. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

C'mon Pat......you know that EVERYTHING WAS FINE

UNTIL YOU!!!!!! CAME IN WITH YOUR FANCY NEW BOILER!!!!!!!! Look, most people expect you to wave the magic wand and fix ALL their problems while you're there. You can usually get the truth by asking the husband and wife seperately and several times how it worked before. Mad Dog

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PG

Mad Dog any pointers on removing the old vent out of the vent

trap? If I get it out I think I'll run the system a bit and see if it works then replace the vent. What do you think? Also how many main air vents should I "tree" together? I did think about removing the vent trap, and the return trap but was a bit nervous about how the system would perform. Also I'd like to limit my hours at this point in time. If I leave it all, do I need the 1" pipe (with relief valve) tied back in, and where? One more thing the low pressure needed for vapor (and a vaporstst) kind of boggles me. A couple of years ago I had a similar type job and had the dardest time running at that low pressure. I just felt like I overlooked something then, as I feel on this job. Thanks for all your professional help. Send me a bill!

Mad Dog_2

Gerry Gill?Steve Pacek have a formula for that

available somewhere on this site. How many sqaure feet is the boiler firing? I would start with a minimum of three...if you need more add em. If you can't get out the old vent with WD 40 and arm power...you could cut and cape it out. otherwise, I would take the whole puppy out. Post some pics if you can. Mad Dog

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Steamhead (in transit)

If that's the usual Webster Vent Trap

it will have a vacuum check screwed into the top. Remove this check and install a Gorton #2 in its place.

If more dry return venting is needed, add it to the return itself rather than the Vent Trap. The Vent Trap has a float valve underneath where the vacuum check was, and the seat of this valve limits the air throughput.

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PG

Found my problem.................

Sometimes I'm sharp as a bowling ball. I insstalled one of the check valves BACKWARDS! As Ren would say would say to Stimpy, "what an idiot". Two good things did come from this bonehead move. First, we probably wouldn't of found that leak on the radiator return pipe. It was in a very weird spot. Second I got to brush up on my old vapor systems. Thanks guys!

Steamhead (in transit)

Congratulations

on your troubleshooting skills!

Regarding the vent, the Gorton #2 is the biggest one on the market. You need a big vent there since it's the only vent in the entire system. If you can't find Gortons in your area, call Ken Kunz at Gorton, 908-276-1323 and tell him I sent you. He will see that you get your #2.

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PG

System working great, the ancient vent has a ball bearing......

in it. It seems to be working fine. Should I leave it?

Mad Dog_2

If you want the best and largest capacity vents out there

Mad Dog

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Steamhead (in transit)

Change it

the ball bearing is a vacuum check, which you don't want when running oil or gas. The reason is you can get vacuum before all the air is out of the system. The air will expand under vacuum, possibly blocking steam flow.

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PG

Main air vents, size differences

A Hoffman 4A vent is half (or more) the price of the Gorton #2. I see mostly the 4A size vent on the average size redential house. So the question is, Is the Gorton #2 overkill? I forget the exact EDR of this job, but we sized it properly, and installed a Burnham IN7. Like my associates on here, I only want to do top quality work while trying to earn a couple of nickles. Gorton is closed today, so I can't call to ask. I called a few of my local suppliers, and only one of the three carried it. They have to order and I pay shipping. What about the Hoffman #75?

Steamhead (in transit)

Gorton #2 is correct

since that is the only vent in the system. Forget the Hoffmans, they're just not big enough to vent that system without building pressure. The Gorton will vent it at a few ounces.

"Steamhead"

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Mad Dog_2

You'd have to put 4 Hopffman 75s

to equal 1 Gortin # 2. Don't get me wrong, Hoffman 75s are fine...just not bigg enough ca[pacity for me. Go Gorton. Overkill - never! With fuel rising? Mad Dog

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