Shower Valve Recommendations?

Constantin

That was very helpful.

Well, it appears that they have flushed and exchanged the cartridges before, just to have the mess reappear some weeks later. Apparently, part of the trouble can be found upstream at the electric tankless, for which my friends are getting very good support.

After hearing about the troubles, the manufacturer has asked them to send it back to them, as the unit apparently is eligible for some free upgrades to the HX, the electronics, etc. Some stainless parts in the unit are being exchanged for similar parts made of bronze, for example. Perhaps the water is too aggressive for the stainless in that area? Anyway, some of the fouling in the cartridge may have been due to the stainless HX coming apart...

So, my friends are scheduling a professional to replace the valve <em>and</em> send in the water heater for a repair/upgrade. Props to SETS for offering a repair/upgrade of a unit that was already out in the field.

Constantin

Calling all masters of plumbing...

... so I get a call from a friend in FL that lives in a relatively new (3 years young) all-electric home. They have a tankless water heater, a SETS model 220 that heats all the fixtures fine, except for the one shower. Said shower has a Moen Positemp valve which is fed by 1/2" pipes. Allegedly, the water pressure isn't great but it's steady throughout the house.

The shower has been acting quite weird, with periods of normal operation punctated without warning by bursts of boiling-hot water followed by bursts of cold water. The water temperature then may or may not get stuck in one position or the other. This has been going on for about a month now and my friends are at their wits' end... they wonder what to do next as they assume that the problem is with the shower valve.

They are committed to replacing/repairing the valve... so the only question is whether to replace it with another Positemp, to get the old one repaired, or to go with something better? Their professional plumber is advocating replacing the Positemp with a spring-loaded valve as opposed to the plunger-valve found in the Moen... any thoughts?

bob young

symmons

Symmons makes excellent pressure bal. shower valves. also powers , chicago, lawler & leonard are some of the best. moen & delta are way over rated.

Plumdog_2

Repair is worth a try

even though thats not a real super duper valve. Sounds like the cartridge has debris stuck in it. Replacement cartridge is pretty easy to install.

jeff_51

plumdog is right

just needs a new positemp cartidge. Make sure the valve gets flushed well before the new cartridge is installed

Weezbo

You have that in Triplicate Constantin *~/:)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The pressure balanced valves aren't known for durability.

Thermostatic valves are much more reliabile, but much more expensive.

I've only used Grohe thermostatic valves and really like them. Built-in shut offs and strainers. The thermostatic cartrige is a stack of bi-metal discs. Simply looking at the thing, I have no idea how it works, but there are no finicky spring or plunger mechanisms. Have had one in daily (2-3 showers) use for nearly 10 years with zero problems. Think I've cleaned the strainers twice.

Watch out. Some manufacturers make claims like "pressure balanced thermostatic". This are NOT the same as true thermostatic valves!

gasfolk

If standard water heaters allow sediment to settle, is it possible sediment is passing through the tankless heater and causing recurrent valve jams? Would anyone recommend a sediment filter on the water inlet?

gf

gasfolk

Do your friends have...

a whole-house water filter?

If their water system is like ours, sand, rust, dirt, etc. stirred up by unusually high flows nearby--such as fire fighting and construction--may be a factor in jamming the valve. Since showers are mostly hot water, most of these particulates would have settled in a storage-type water heater but may be getting through the tankless.

At least one tankless manufacturer recommends installing a particulate filter. ("In areas where sediment is a problem, installing a water filter is recommended." http://www.adtectankless.com/faq.html)

(Some define "sediment" narrowly as "precipitated mineral salts;" others include sand and other particulate matter in this term.)

gf

Constantin

Thanks!

Gasfolk, nice to see you again on the Wall. How is the house? As for my friends, I believe they already have a sediment filter as they have a water softening system. Most of them seem to incorporate soem sort of sediment filter in a screw-in cartridge. However, I will have them double-check that.

The thought at the moment seems to be that the SETS HX slowly degrades in the presence of water with high levels of Chlorine in it (though I do not know if the Cl content in the water there is terrible or not). However, the switch from Stainless to Bronze components by SETS seems to indicate that they're looking for something more passive than stainless. Dealing with chlorine is a prime suspect for doing this, IMMHO.

I suppose my friends could install a sediment filter downstream from the SETS, but if the new HX proves to be durable, perhaps this is not necessary. It's yet another great idea that we can keep in the backs of our minds when it comes to getting this problem fixed.

Thanks again.

gasfolk

Hey, Constantin,

Just increasingly distracted by a third bambino (3 boys!). Did I used to have free time?

We just closed a huge bypass that was funneling cold air from a small area of slate roof, down behind a pantry, and into the basement. Perhaps more details later if the numbers improve as hoped. The neighbors vetoed the geothermal well drilling--afraid their foundation would crack and not open to alternatives. Oh well. (By the way, is that huge house with the huge carriage house still standing at or near the corner of Lancaster and Washington?)

Anyway, if nothing else, perhaps your friend's sediment filter is clogged and a factor in the low water pressure.

Very best,

gf

Constantin

Yeah, it's still there...

... big, bold, and brown as ever. What a palace...

If you ever want to stop by to shake your head at our folly, drop me a line by email. Cheers!