What is the proper treatment for cesspools

Bob W._3

See below.

rob_26

cesspools

I heard that putting down lime in the tank once a month is the best way to get rid of solds. Any one know if that is true.
Thanks

[Deleted User]

I'm but a mere plumber...

Sorry Constatin:-) Just HAD to do it now, didn't I ;-)

I'm not familiar with the term cess pool. Is that the same as septic tank? Here in Colorado, we have a septic tank which receives the solids, and then a liqud holding/pump tank connected to a leaching field. Are we talking the same thing?

In our case, they recommend a regular bacteria feeding to the tank to break down the solids. Bio Clean for one comes to mind. ANother one is Roebec, and boy does THAT stuff stink like you know what.

Theoretically, a properly designed and maintained septic system should never need pumping in the life of the house. This theory is based upon the premise that nothing would be introduced into the tank that could destroy the naturally occuring bacterial culture that does the job of anerobically breaking down the solids. Things like Clorox, and other oxygen based cleaners have a tendency to retard and in some cases stop the bacterial action so necessary to proper septic system health.

At my place in the mountains, I don't allow the use of oxidants (clorox etc...) and I dose the tank often with beneficial bacteria to keep it going. I just had the tank pumped this last year after 30 years of summer weekend use, and the guy who pumped it said there was 10" of sludge in the bottom of the tank. I was expecting it to be full of sludge. He said it looked to be in great shape!

We used to throw slaking lime into our pit outhouse, but that was more for odor/fly control than breaking down the solids. But then again, I'm merely a plumber, and not a qualified septic tankologist. I may not know my $4!t...but I know my hot water:-)

If we're not talking about the same thing, then (in Gilda Radners quirkiest voice) NEVER MIND...

ME

Bob W._3

Definition found online:

http://www.monstermoving.monster.com/living_and_shopping/LAS_Article/SepticCesspoolSystemBasics.asp

Many years ago we used to just use perforated 55 gal drums filled with stone; worked OK for cabins but nobody ever heard about groundwater pollution then.

Patchogue Phil_28

Cesspool versus septic tank

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CESSPOOL AND A SEPTIC TANK?

A septic tank is a chamber through which all waste water from the home passes. The tank collects the water and allows the heavier solids to sink to the bottom forming a "sludge". Lighter solids such as soap, grease and oil rises to the top and forms "scum". Natural bacterial action works on the solids, helping to break them down.

The tank's design keeps the solids from flowing out with the residual liquid, called "greywater", into the cesspool drainage area where it leeches into the soil.

Cesspools (or leaching pools) are pits into which concrete, brick or cement block walls have been placed. Wastewater flows into the cesspool and drains or "percolates" into the soil through perforated walls.

Cesspools which serve only as "overflow" pits from septic tanks are much more efficient than the older systems because they receive much less solid material. However, where there is no septic tank to hold the solids, the cesspool will require much more maintenance. Over time, when the drainage area around the leaching pool becomes saturated, additional pools may have to be dug to handle the volume

Constantin

Learn a new thing every day!

Thanks Phil!

When I was in France for a year, the 300-year-old home we were staying in started to experience slow drains on the toilet. Turns out that the septic tank was full... and the overflow was not into a cesspool or a leach field, but the local municipal sewer!

The overflow pipe had gotten pretty clogged and the huge tanker truck (water-jet style pipe-snake) had to refill once before they cleared everything. Our landlady admonished us to feed the septic tank one packet of enzymes per week to keep it happy. Easy enough to do and the stuff they use for that purpose in France looks a lot like yeast. Worked like a charm too.

Nevertheless, I thought the system was rather weird. Why wouldn't one tie all the household "exhausts" directly into the sanitation sewer instead of sending them into a septic tank first? The only answer I could think of is that some of the pipes entered said tank below the water level... so that the tank acted like a giant trap. Or it's simply a chapter in the history of French sanitation engineering genius? :-P

Patchogue Phil_28

Keep it local

Maybe in that area of France they wanted to keep the solids out of the municipal system. Makes sense, have the solids broken down at the source.

Patchogue Phil_28

curdled milk

On one of those home improvement shows on TV (Your New House) many years ago, they suggested letting a gallon jug of milk curdle in the sun for a week or so and then dump it into the septic tank. Supposed to help digest all the solids in the tank.

PJO_5

Finally!!!

A thread that relates to something I can actually help :-)

This wass my - ahem - area of expertise for years...and I'm, not too ashamed of it! ;-)

Very good points by the gents - even you Mark - and I especially like the definition of cesspool vs. septic tank.

As far as the "French" setup; you actually want the solids in the watsewater going to the sewer plant because the greywater contains a very high residual of N2 stuff (Nitrate/Nitrite) by itself...the "total" waste contains a much better balance of BOD and solids that the bugs at the plant prefer. A treatment system can be designed for that high ammonia-based flow (like a rest stop on a highway - nearly all "Pee" and very little "Poop"!) but most plants are not.

Right on the money with the enzyme addition...and lime is normally used for odor/insect control. Too much lime will kill the bugs due to very high pH.

Take Care, PJO

Robert_15

Cesspool

Thanks, I have been using bacteria packets for just over a year
we had to have the tank pumped in april. i just looked in both the main tank (for solids) & the over flow (for gray water) both tanks are 1500 gallons each. we have 3 baths & 5 people living here.what i noticed is the main tank is getting full & the overflow is almost empty. About 2 1/2 years ago a septic expert said to just throw down acid a let it drain without pumping. in april we had the main tank pumped and treated & the over flow was just treated. since then i had beed putting down the bacteria ever month. The funny thing is 4 houses down never had his tanks pumped in 39 years, but other houses every 3 years. I think putting down the bacteria is working but there are hundreds of companies out there selling this stuff. i had heard that Bio Clean is very good, I used this stuff form http://www.dolphinindustries.com Has anyone have good experience with this product?
Thanks
Rob

Ron Schroeder

Around here (Long Island NY) they use sulphuric acid. I don,t know if it really works. To me it seems that it would kill the benificial bacteria.

Ron

Robert_15

I am also from LI i'm in Hauppauge and your right about acid i understand in CT they are not allowed to use it.

Patchogue Phil_28

instead of pumping

Also on Long Island.

Since pumping stations fees for getting rid of septic/cesspool "stuff" is so high around here, another method exists.

Some companies have a special rig that uses your graywater and they blast inject it deep into the bottom of your cesspool. It opens up the ground to drain better. And there are no dumping fees involved.

Robert_15

Thanks Phil I know i lot of these co. say they pump it & do just what you said but charge you anyway. They simply put acid down and it drains away & another thing what about those ads in pennysaver saying $39. + a min of 5 gallons of acid they do not pump away. I look for honest people and stick with them. I knew a company in Patchouge that since sold his buss. retired I knew
his daughter I forgot her maden name.
Thanks

PJO_5

Drainfield vs. Tank Cleaning

If someone is doing what you describe it is beneficial for the drainfield, and does work very well. The tank itself is a different matter, and if it's full of solids can quickly clog a drainfield (depending on a lot of other factors of course).

DO NOT ADD ACID if you can avoid it...it will kill the beneficial bacteria.

Take care, PJO

Robert_15

It will take 3 to 4 weeks to recover the bacteria after acid is introduced into the system. So you would just reintroduce the grey water back in with jet force & air rate it. & that is going to work? it would seem that the solids would just settle back & clog the system again. it would seem that putting acid in would eat the solids & promote dranage

Dave-St Louis

Septic Tanks

I had our 30-year old septic tank pumped out about 15-years ago, because relatives that have lived in this rural area told me it was the proper thing to do. I also would add a box of RID-X bacterial treatment every month. This summer I had the tank pumped out again, because of slow flow into the tank that caused overflow in one toilet. Overflow was caused by some rocks that apparently fell through the vent pipe in the back yard. I talked to several tank pumping companies, and all of them said it wasn't necessary to add the bacterial treatment, so I quit putting it in. I sure hope these firms are correct with their recommendation, but assuming nothing is put into the tank to destroy the bacteria, it makes sense to me the bacterial should continue to function normally.

St. Louis Dave

PJO_5

Acid....

Will not "eat" the solids like the bacteria. Also, aeration is not appropriate for a septic tank - it works with anaerobic bacteria. That's another reason why chlorine (an oxidizer) kills the bacteria so well is because it puts tons of O2 in there.

That's also why it really stinks a lot when opened to the air! :-)

To review; jetting out the drainfieled is good for drainage, but if the tank is full of solids it will clog the drainfield in a relatively short time. If you do both (empty the tank and jet the field) you are all set...

take Care, PJO

Christian Egli_2

Feeding the lovely little bugs, a job for each of us

All the things you always wanted to know without ever asking. Fascinating.

I was once speaking to an employee of the city's sewer system (for about one million people) We were looking at video footage of the pipes, while I was commenting about how clean they seemed, since they were my pipes I was worried we might see an embarrassing floater go by.

He explained that the pipes themselves, providing the transit time is long enough, will allow for bacterial digestion, and what emerges at the treatment station is already quite clean stuff.

Is that possible? Mustn't the septic bugs eat in total tranquility or can they take their meal on the go?

Constantin

No tranquility required...

... just take a look at the sludge digesters they have on Deer Island in Boston. These beauties are filled with whatever settled in the ponds and then bacteria go to work. Lots of air bubbles (i.e. agitation) keep the bacteria happy and productive.

The bacteria also produce a lot of methane, so much so that some wastewater treatment plants are producing energy with it.

Keith_8

Ever visit

a sewege plant? The one that I was in had some filthy looking water/solids and stunk like nobodies business.

It would seem unlikely that a piping system would be long enough to create that type of envioromnent.

What happens to all the non-biodegradeable items?

Keith

Christian Egli_2

The wonderful world of politics

Effluent Outfall Tunnel? Is that like the Big Dig? Oh dear.

By the way, I know of some practices in Swtizerland which may relate to your French problem.

It used to be you had to have a septic tank before passing the leachate further into the city sewer. It was also mandatory to add roof and storm water as a flush to those pipes which simply led to the river, no wait, to an effluent outfall tunnel...

Sewer lines were simply common leach fields and it made sense in concentrated villages. Most places had had undrained cesspools for collecting animal and household waste. The contents were drained on the fields. That was old-fashionned.

Then came flush toilets while the animals left, all that needed to be done was to connect a leach take-away to the existing tank. The idea seemed so great, new homes had to be built with septic tank, roof water collection and city sewer.

Then, about 30 years ago, the treatment plants came. Septic tanks became outlawed (at great cost to owners) The treatment plants were built extra large to accomodate the surge storm water which was still all connected.

Oh it all seemed so smart?

Then it was realised the storm water flushed away too much of the digestive bugs at the treatment plant. So... it was mandated that roof and storm water should be outlawed from sewer lines. At great cost, owners and municipalities built separated strom sewer. This has started to happen in the last five years.

What do you think happened next?

Oh dear, there isn't enough ordinary sewer for the existing plants to justify the operating costs. And thus, there is a mad rush to connect any and all dwelling to the sewer grid, however remote a farm or home might be.

Let me predict the future.

Oh dear, there are little doggie poops going down the storm drain... we should build septic tanks at each storm drain.

You may have helped your French landlady by clogging the system. You exposed how gross it all is.

Christian Egli_2

Solids sounds scary

I meant clean water... not crystal pure. Surely, Keith, the plant you visited did not have an effluant outfall tunnel from which I'm sure you could drink the stuff...

With the price of bottled water, there must be a shortage.

The guy I had spoken to also said lots of the liquids we pour down the drain never make it to the other end, they disappear on the way. Sounds like a nice way to solve lots of problems, but I don't know how true it is.

The camera did not render smells, so I'll take your word for it that it stinks. Thanks.

Constantin

Nah...

... the Big Dig and the MWRA are two very different animals. The former was primarily funded by the feds and to a lesser extent by the locals. The latter is funded entirely by the locals... at least, I think. Not that the MWRA is without controversy. The water rates have been going up steadily and some municipalities got into hot water due to political decisions... A few years ago, Framingham was ordered by the Feds to stop all new construction after the town had gone through yet another water shortage.

Yes, a chronic water shortage in MA... it's what happens when the water is sourced from the local aquifer, but not recharged. They thought they were being so smart, obtaining their own water locally w/o the wasted space of watersheds, etc. and then discharging the sewage into the MWRA network. Other towns like Cambridge have their own, reliable water supply but most towns in this area use the MWRA network for the sewer discharge and the potable water supply (all the way from Quabin Reservoir).

That's not to say that the storm water issue didn't rear its head in Cambridge either. Many combined sewers in town are still from the 1880's and 1890's, when they were put in. When I researched the sewage system for our home, I got to enjoy the myriad of beautiful, hand-drawn charts showing pipe locations, elevations, etc. in ancient books stored at the department of public works. That was a real treat.

Coming back to Cambridge and it's ancient sewage system, it may not surprise you that the local sewage system was designed to handle most normal loads and shed the rest... into the Charles river (yech!). Now that federal law frowns on polluting local rivers with raw sewage, the town is phasing in storm drains... at great cost... However, exceptional rainfalls still cause the overflow to hit the Charles.

A side benefit of the storm drains is that some parts of town are now less likely to go under (as they did in 1996), the Charles ought to stay cleaner, and the water bills may go down as the MWRA receives less storm water. But I'm not holding my breath!

Patchogue Phil_28

cesspool blast

Since a cesspool is open on the bottom and has perforated sides, the blasting does help a lot for drainage.

Then all that is left is sludge. Some water is needed to be left tho. I was told it helps the microbes digest better.

Patchogue Phil_28

local company

Try these guys....friends and family use them for years and years.

J & J Cesspool in Blue Point, Long Island 631 289 1287