No more Mr. Nice Guy

Blackoakbob

You're not! Jlockhard hit the nail on the head. It is difficult to get into the mindset of "business first" when you enjoy doing the work and receiving the satisfation of a job well done. I've learned the hard way to preface calls with "How will you be paying for this? Cash? Check or Credit Card? When people call for your service they have considered how much it will cost. To keep that as part of the service call try keeping a pad of invoices in your tool bag or carry one of those folding metal cases with them in it. That little extra weight will be worth it when it there is a payment in it at the end. Having this in the open to the customer helps make collecting at the end a for-gone conclusion. Mutual respect and respectfull comunication between yourself and the HO or contractor is a must. It helps eliminate contested bills later. Let someone else play Santa Claus you have a right to be respected for a job well done. Best Regards.

singh

Ok here's my situation. I am small company and do mostly plumbing installs and radiant heat. I don't do much service and limit that to customers I know. I warranty my installations for the standard one year,but lately I had alot of "callbacks".They turned out to be mostly unrelated to the work I did but customers don't seem to see it that way.
Examples:

#1. Just finished new house, plumbing and heat. I installed a new Buderus G115 and indirect, checked everthing and put combustion analyzer on for final set up. Got call last night no hot water. Found out H.O. decide to cut concrete stress lines in slab, concrete dust over everything , and in burner.
Should I charge him?
#2. Went to estimate a new kitchen sink, while I was there, I was told they don't like softner anymore, can I turn off. I bypassed softner and unplugged,in and out in 20 minutes, get frantic call basement is flooded, get there, turns out septic is full,nothing to do with softner, should I charge.
#3. Did new house two years ago, got call toilet is leaking,I've been getting those a lot lately, because of humid weather. I asked homeowner if she was sure it was not condesation,she said it was leaking,get there, bone dry.
But since I was there, They broke outdoor spigot handle,but they said it was leaking, replaced handle, told them,frost free drips when shut off for a little bit,stop cranking down on the thing.
Should I charge for my time?
#4.Had second homeowner call me to fix burst pipes, they had not been there in over six months, just found out.
I fixed everthing,turned water on ,checked everything. They call back and said DW is leaking, the thing is old and by coincidence it started to leak two days after I was there,need new DW. Once again my time and dime.

It seems lately I been running around and doing stuff like this and not making $$. Should I send bills, add a little more to my proposals for callbacks,and stop being a nice guy and start running a biz.

How do some of you guys handle this,big and small companies. I've learned a lot from all of you , and any comment helpful.
Sorry long for the post, but I'm frustrated.
Thanks to all in advance.
Devan

Keith_8

Be Up Front

Your time is worth money.
When we get a service call that may or may not be a warranty issue the customer knows upfront they will be charged for the call if it is a non- warranty item. My men get paid either way. So why would the customer not be responcible if it is non-warranty?

You can't be in the service business and give away time.

Work for reasonable clients that appreciate what you provide. Do good work- Answer the phone- Follow thru- Charge for your service. You'll be in business next year. Don't do those things and you'll be working for someone else who will charge for your time.

Keith

jim lockard

I would

Write and present the bill at time of service, collect the check before the "something for nothing" even starts. You can eat up tons of time chaseing BS calls Charge em. Best Wishes J.Lockard

Al Corelli

The answer to all of those questions is:
Charge them. Your time and skills are worth good money. You cheapen yourself by not charging for your time.

S Davis

Charge Them

Devan,
If it is not warrenty you need to charge them if not it could run you out of buisness, I know it is tough but thats buisness, as for the concrete dust we put right in out contract that it is the contractors/homeowners responsibility to protect the boiler/heating equipment from any construction debries like sheetrock dust ect.
and if any cleaning/repair is needed it will be billed at T&M that way you you are not adding money to the bid that you don't need on most jobs.


S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating

Paul Rohrs

Another Point

Your warranty should begin when the boiler is fired and dialed in. It doesn't matter to me if the GC wants to use radiant for "Temporary Heat" during construction, but that is in the contract.

Regards,

PR

Biggerstaffradiantsolutions.com

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

S Davis

Good Piont!!

That is a good point some of the larger jobs we do can be up and running for up to a year before final and homeowners moving in, so that is in the contract as well.



S Davis

Apex Radiant Heating

Robert O'Connor_12

Singh

Charge them.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Cosmo_3

Stick it to 'em, but be nice

I have had that problem many times, it is in my nature to be easygoing. Now I just wear a fake smile when I hear "but it should be under warranty" and just keep re-explaining how my warranty does not cover jobsite debris in the burner. Once, I caught the drywall guys standing on the boiler and I put the zoom lens on my digital camera to good use. Another time the boiler was used as a workbench, for cutting tile, 2X4's, etc. AAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!
I didn'nt get mad however, I just smiled and said that the Mech room needs to be vacummed, before I get in and charge T&M to take apart the burner to clean all the crap out. Only then will the warranty remain in effect.

For service calls, I just explain on the phone that if the problem is determined not to be a warranty item, then they have to pay a minimum $50 trip charge. Or they want me to repair a problem, that they thought would be under warranty but is not then it is a standard service call job, $50 to get there, T&M to complete.

Just keep smiling, even when you don't want to.......


Cosmo Valavanis

Dependable P.H.C. Inc.

Ragu

Singh

I feel for you. I've gone through a run like that more than once, and for me it was an indication to "up" my class of customer. Additionally, it made me do way more written documentation of what I will and won't do, before, during and after the job.

As some of the other folks have posted, sometimes the buiding contractor can be your worst nightmare. A few years ago I did a new house and kept getting repeated "no heat" calls from the builder; I had gotten the heat up and running in order for them to finish the house. They swept sawdust into the boiler room more than a few times. The worst was when they sanded drywall and SPRAYPAINTED THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE WITH THE AIR HANDLERS RUNNING!!! I never got paid for those calls, but I also don't work with contractors of that mental caliber anymore. Good luck.

Paul Pollets

Chargeable items

All of the above are chargeable items, beyond any warranty.

Get paid for your services. You deserve it.

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singh

OK, I get the message.
I do like the idea of carrying invoices in truck.
Now I have to get out of that mindset of letting things slide. The biggest problem I have is my easygoing temperment and politeness. It is also an asset,most of my referrals come from customers that say so.
My wife says I'm nicer to others than own family,she's just the opposite, maybe she can do the billing and dealing with customers.
This looks to be a good year, and I want to be around in the future, I just see the bank account going down and time spent out there does not seem to be worthwhile.
I think its time to revisit my books from Ellen Rohr.
Thanks.

Joe Furfaro_2

Singh

I am also a small bussiness owner in the electrical industry.
Have been doing this for 20 years and your comments are all too familiar.
Singh, imagine you are in the retail bussines.
You would not give someone more product than they have paid for. You have to see your service in the same context.
Ceratinly give your customers good value, etc. but don't let the chargabke work go unpaid.
Like you, I did most of the work myself so I didn't see any
"expenses" when I did all those free "extras".
My residential customers tended to see the same thing.
I did not have a bussiness or merchant background, I did not see my labour and service for what it is worth on the open market.
You need to be as professional in the bussiness side of things as you are in the technical side.
If you had to send an emplyee to one of those freebies you would clearly see that an invoice was in order.
Your customers would too.
Can't stress enough how crucial fair and proper billing is to any bussiness.
I know it isn't easy but you have to know when and what to charge anyone for what you do.
And yes, having your wife deal with the billing and customers could be a great idea.

Kal Row

5% of clients make 95% of trouble...fire the 5%

but first, tell them, then fix, then bill, and if they don’t pay - they don’t exist anymore until they do - up front and in cash

and never ever have a client owe you more than you can afford to loose - no matter how big the deal is or how long you know the client - the road to bankruptcy is paved with "friends"

Tom_35

You've been given great advice

All of the guys that have expressed their opinions are right on...and all of us have had the same experiences that you have mentioned.

When you get a customer conditioned to not being charged, they expect it for the future as well. You wouldn't expect to go to a grocery store, department store, etc and purchase several hundred dollars worth of merchandise and then tell them to send you a bill without giving them a credit card would you? This is the same thing---why should you offer goods and services without expecting payment?

If there is a question as to warranty, be up front with the customer and let them know where they stand immediately. Doing the work and then hoping to get your money at a later date because it has been determined that it isn't a warranty issue is risky. Mailed invoices and statements tend to get lost or ignored.

Review Ellen's books and stick to what she says.

Tom Atchley

Rocky_2

Was in the same boat

Just couldn't bring myself to be the tough guy about collecting and charging what was really due. So I took myself out of the equation. I hired my MOM to collect for me. Have you ever been dunned by a 75 year old mom? HOW do you say no to a little old grey-haired lady who is so polite and grandmotherly and is so great at guilt-triping you into paying "her little boy". Best move I ever made. Old delinquent accounts started paying, new work gets hit immediately with the bill. I'm not saying you have to hire your mom, but get someone else who is good at collecting the money or doesn't mind being "the heavy" to dun the customers. YOu go do the work, let someone else be the tough guy. My two cents worth.
Rocky

Supply House Rick

GET PAID!

Devan,
Coming from a Plumbing Installation & Service background, my advise is if you leave your house, find a problem that doesn't have anything to do with your work...Get COD on the spot. You do not have one customer that will do anything for you FREE, do you?
Getting geared up for heating season,
Rick

George_10

When I owned a substantial printing company

I had a very basic set of business rules. 50% down and the balance on completion with all clients except the city, the county and the state.

I had several conversations about that policy with many non-government clients. It was very simple. My company, my rules. I keep my promises and do the job right. You pay as agreed. I may have lost business, but it was minimal.
My company reputation was we were the best in town and far from the cheapest. It worked for me and your rules for your company will work for you. You just have to be firm and not worry about losing business and money. You are already losing money when you do jobs for free that fairly should have been charged for.

It starts with you and not your clients. A firm set of payment rules will contribute to your ongoing success.

Good luck.

JCD

One HO's take on this

I am a homeowner and I'll give my two cents for what it is worth. If I call someone and get service, I would expect them to charge me. If someone can come in, size up the situation and provide a remedy, great, that is worth something. It's not your time I'll be paying you for - it is your expertise. Putz around and you are wasting my time and that is worth something too.

Years ago, on a job I had while in high school, I worked for a guy who had us tear apart three pallets worth of product. Why? So we could remove the shrinkwrap that said buy one - get one free. This on little 12oz bottles. His advertising then said, buy one and receive one additional one. It seemed like a lot of work and I asked him why? He said that as long as he owned the company, the word "free" would never be used in advertising or anywhere. I pressed him on why this was so important.

He said that people who get something for nothing feel that they owe just as much.

JCD

One HO's take on this

I am a homeowner and I'll give my two cents for what it is worth. If I call someone and get service, I would expect them to charge me. If someone can come in, size up the situation and provide a remedy, great, that is worth something. It's not your time I'll be paying you for - it is your expertise. Putz around and you are wasting my time and that is worth something too.

Years ago, on a job I had while in high school, I worked for a guy who had us tear apart three pallets worth of product. Why? So we could remove the shrinkwrap that said buy one - get one free. This on little 12oz bottles. His advertising then said, buy one and receive one additional one. It seemed like a lot of work and I asked him why? He said that as long as he owned the company, the word "free" would never be used in advertising or anywhere. I pressed him on why this was so important.

He said that people who get something for nothing feel that they owe just as much.

C-Tec_2

working for free?

This is all you need to follow up on!

Marice Mayo,
Frank Blau,
Ellen Rohr.

Do some research and attend these seminars. It will be the best decision you ever made.

They changed my life!