HI-V Air, Indirect Light & Black Iron to Suspend Cabinets

bob young

the plumbing is atrocious. 3 " waste reduced to 2 " ?? NO proper hangers. a mess. wye & 1/8 " bend on stack connection in lieu of sanitary tee wye kills the vent. elementary mistakes indicates no plumbing knowlege.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Following are some photos. As always, criticism is welcome, will try to point out my errors, and all questions answered to best of my ability.

This shows the main trunk (9") for the high-velocity air system (Unico 3-ton). Spiral ductwork, formed els and welded round tees. All 230# of me can hang from this ductwork. Insulated with bubble foil attached with contact cement.

Yellow arrow shows position of second 7" branch leading directly away from the camera. All but two of the twenty branch ducts are rigid tube (central vacuum) with 3' of sound attenuating tube at the end. Honestly wanted to contract this out, but only person in town who had any experience with Hi-V told me that my design requirement of no drop in ceiling save this one was "impossible". I always enjoy a challenge...

c.t.kay

very nice ,profession and compact

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Same Wall, Still High, to the Left Corner

Upper left shows part of the radiant floor for bath above. Radiant Engineering type "C". Fully internal bath and it will stay uninsulated. Will spray paint the back side of all drywall near black.

The "upper" soffit defines the space for the indirect lighting cove. Width of the upper soffit depends whether or not it provides accent lighting (and also to idealize photometrics for the central space).

Error: I destroyed one section of the bridging for each duct branch. On the other side, I honestly made a centered hole in solid 2 x 10. So little wood left at the top and bottom (about ½") that I figured the work was useless and it was better to use 1½" at the bottom and hope for the best with the top...

Put two extra layers of bubble foil between the supports for branch lines at all support points. The 9" main is supported near the air handler end and otherwise gets its support from the branches. Three support points for the one you see, four for the other.

Bob Sweet

If your looking for criticism

you'll get none here!! That looks sweet. I dont blame you for wanting to sub it out, a job like that would keep me awake at night. You seem to have the HV down packed. Nice very nice!!
The framing contractors did a nice job as well.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Same View but Low

From left-to-right. Broom closet, oven, refrigerator, [drinking] glass/book shelves. Added the OSB for somewhat of a shear wall. Can't hurt as the old-time tin heads didn't help the double top plates and beam below... At least the old-time hydronic engineers and I have only used the paths that they opened.

Bottom-left is not sheathed because I have to remove the dining room radiator.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

First HV job. DID keep me awake many nights. Framing by me. Soffits straight and level to ±1/16" despite a ceiling that's off by 1¼".

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Business End of the Hi-V System

Opposite direction of previous photos looking from the laundry.

Errors:

1) While you can't see, the condensate drain is attached to the vent for the mop sink directly below. Kind of hard to imagine a problem with condensate in a 2" vertical when every nearby fixture is very well vented. Only other drain in this shot is from the trap you see above and slightly right of the bell for the condensate--it connects via the wye at far right just below the duct.

2) Sometimes I use "purple" primer, sometimes I don't. (Depends on what can I grab.) Sometimes it's near perfect, sometimes it's not. Do however, always prime.

Bob Sweet

WOW ,this site

Keeps me waking up every morning thinking about doing my job better! Even after 20 yrs what a God send.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Opposite Wall From Above and Looking East

Main sink below the windows. "Upper" soffit quite deep here as the stained glass will be lit from the inside out for accent.

Error: Fu#(ed this first "high" soffit because I was trying to cut things too close. 3½" makes even.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

From the Dining Room Door Looking Northeast

You're seeing "through" the 16' square kitchen to the eating area.

Eating peninsula will be under the very wide soffit you see in the upper foreground. Open dowel-work dish storage will hang suspended from black iron below this soffit. Why black iron? It accepts and holds paint well. I've always had a problem painting bright steel.

Seeming Error: The drop-down in the soffit to the left. Unavoidable but it shouldn't be apparent when everything is complete. Wall will extend across with counter and cabinets above. Floor-to-ceiling pantry behind. "Junk" counter and service access for Hi-V air handler further behind. Access will be tight but proper--MUCH time spent ensuring this. When finished you will not be able to see the back door from this view.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

From the Dining Room Door Looking Northeast

NM--double post.

Bob Sweet

Mike

How big of a crew are you running for a job like this?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

From the Back Door Looking South

Now you can see the true kitchen area.

The narrow band of wood underneath windows at countertop level is for tile placement. Every electrical outlet and grout joint is planned.

Error: Strictly legal vent for the kitchen sink (underneath the double windows at left) is nearly impossible. Solution: commercial grease trap in basement connected to the continuous vent. NO "garbage" disposal in the main sink--it's in the island sink that will be directly behind the main. Vented as "properly" as any island sink can be vented and piped such that when it clogs (inevitable) it's both easily snakable and has no affect on the rest of the DWV system. At least it's supposed to work that way <;)

Mike T., Swampeast MO

"Crew" of two plus some occasional minions.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Looking Up the Rear Stairs From the Back Door

45° angle leads to laundry. Ceiling height defined by the flitch plate that supports the stairwell. Master bath and loads of tile above.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

FINALLY Heat-Related

Ceiling of the kitchen eating area. Balcony above and the only exposed ceiling on the ground floor.

Was uninsulated until this spring. Now has 3 x 2" of rigid foam meticulously installed.

Radiator you see in the "From the Dining Room Door Looking Northeast" is the only currently installed in this space.

From measurements BEFORE insulation but the loss ASSUMING insulation: 98 sqft EDR rad provides 4 mbh in a 55° space with 65° average radiator temperature. Even with LOADS of "fudge factor", those numbers don't jive.

Know that the ceiling strapping is common to those of you out east. When my drywaller say he said, "If your weren't so hairy and sweaty I'd give you a hug."

Dan Foley

Nice Work

Nice looking job, Mike. It took plenty of time and effort to install the Hi-V system the way you did. I especially like the 2" condensate drain with the bell opening. It would take a lot for that one to clog.

We do many Hi-V systems and I tried using PVC for the supply on one project, similar to your use of central vac pipe. The inspector turned it down and made us rip it out. According to IMC all non-metallic duct must conform to UL181. PVC duct is only allowed underground. I'm sure it will work fine but I hope the inspector doesn't hassle you.

If you ever decide to move east, I have plenty of HiV systems that need to be installed -DF

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gasfolk

Glad you're back to heating

Very nice work.

gf

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Yikes! Hadn't even thought of the central vacuum tube being a code issue. Chief engineer at Unico told me it worked very well with their system. It's completely covered with bubble foil, so maybe they'll think it's metal--won't mention that it's plastic...

Had to use the plastic because I refused to bore holes large enough for Unico tubing in 2x10x16' joists.

After dealing with WAY too many clogged A/C condensate lines have used 2" (sometimes 1 1/2") and the bell reducer on every job for years now. NEVER a clog. Make 1" "air traps" for the condensate connections and no backup problems either. Found that the pre-formed plastic traps have too shallow of a seal and sometimes the air handler will suck the water back out of them.

Hope all the time and effort spent on this ductwork will prove worthwhile.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Central motif of the stained glass windows (I made) are a unifying element. Have old pictures of the house and the original wood shutters had a solid square panel at the top with piercings of similar design. With slight modification, this design appears throughout the inside and outside of the house.

Kitchen use should be especially attractive. Some of the wall cabinets will be double-decker. Decorative band between the two layers will have scalloped squares (think of waves) with same same piercing as the shutters.

Jim\"Rocky\"Kelleher

Who is the Plumber?

I hope that plumbing isn't new, while you have the chance I would take the time to have it redone.

gasfolk

Framing

We admire your courage for notching and drilling timber. My unfortunate phobia for this limits the wife's choices.

gf

Mike T., Swampeast MO

No notching, but did definitely drill. Drilled from both sides to keep the boring bit from "blasting out" the back side. Every reference I could find agreed that these holes were structurally safe.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

All duly noted. Thanks. The 3" reduced to 2" is however for a drip for the A/C condensate--the air handler is not yet installed.

joe_94

Did Spiral Duct, or Unico, do the square -to round?

Mike, who supplied the transition, square to round, Unico or Spiral Duct?
The latter is in my back yard here in Minneapolis.
joe

jp_2

12 awg lighting wire

looks like you are running 12 awg for lighting?

you're not mixing 12 & 14 awg in those boxes are you?

added: as clean as many boiler installs here, is as neat and clean as I like to make the wiring. takes more time but makes you look like a real pro. but i assume you are not finished wiring?

hot_rod

Lots of hard work

looks pretty good.

I'd agree on the S-traps you built with the Y and 1/8 bend. I think you did that below your shower also? That trap arm needs to dump into a san tee.

Here is the difference. With a Y and 1/8 bend look at the point of actual vent connection.

Your trap could also siphon down to that level, and the vent connection is below the weir of the trap.

Some of the plumbing code books have illustrated versions that diagram and explain these details.

Hate to see you sheetrock over a potential plumbing problem.

hot rod

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Spiral Manufacturing Company made the rectangular-to-round transition (with offset). Utterly perfect to my specs. Their catalog is exceptional with sample drawings and instructions for providing dimensions in a standard way.

jp_2

no permits, no inspections?

i get the feeling that this isn't being inspected?