A case for electric?

nick_7

Seems to me the price of oil can only continue to go up, up, up. Meanwhile, since electricity can be generated with a variety of domestic sources, its price won't go up as much, may come down if the potential of nuclear power is realized. Seems to me also that the most comfortable, efficient and quiet way to heat new homes and some old ones may well be something like alcatel electic cables in floors, walls and ceilings. Make the whole interior one giant radiant surface. A bunch of thermostate and low mass emitters could mean such a system could have quick warm up and cool down, so that unoccupied space can be kept at a lower standby temp.

tom_75

I have a 7x16 room that I am working on. I thought that it was built upon a crawl space but now I see different. It was an old porch - has stones mortared together over dirt and this is inside of a cinder block foundation. I am able to add 2x6 joists over the stones to get this floor up to house level with the joining living room. I will insulate as much as possible but I am concerned about running copper from my basement across the floor to the 16' wall. If I have a problem then I would not be able to get to the copper without ripping up my future hardwood floor.

So, I see two choices:

1. Electric baseboard heat
2. Put a 6' hot water baseboard on each 7' end wall. To do this I would need to feed and return through each enclosure from the joining room and this would be a pain in the neck job.

What would you do?

Steamhead (in transit)

Have you done a heat-loss calculation?

Only then will you know exactly how much baseboard you really need.

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[Deleted User]

And..

how much its going to cost to operate with each.

ME

tom_75

Not sure how to figure the heat loss but would like to make the decision regardless. Will electric cost alot more to operate for just that one room, generally speaking?

John@Reliable_10

Tom...........

you may only need about 8' of baseboard for a room your size w/8' ceiling. Best bet is to have a heatlost done by someone who understands how it's done and maybe they could suggest the best way to pipe

tom_75

Thanks, I did a heat loss calculation from Burnham's site and came up with the following:

Total Heat Loss for 60degree F Temp. Diff. = 6,106.40
Total Heat Loss for 70degree F Temp. Diff. = 7,205.55

What is recommended for hw baseboard length versus electric baseboard length (220v)?

[Deleted User]

You need to convert the BTU's to watts.

There are 3,414 but's per kilowatt (kw), so 7,205 divided by 3413 = 2.1 kw.

As for hourly operating costs, if you were in Denver, at $0.08 per KWH, and $0.90 per therm gas with an 80 percent efficient appliance, at design conditions, it would cost you $0.16 per hour to operate the electric, or $0.08 per hour for gas.

ME

tom_75

Thanks Mark, so about twice as much to heat that one room with electric ......... I will probably end up going with electric.

Brad White_61

Ninety cents a therm??

Where we are (Boston) and according to my latest gas bill, I am paying over $1.74 per therm.

Come on, Mark, share the love! (And gas too!)

Then again my electric bill runs about 13 cents per kWH so at least your electric reflects all the savings inherent in hydro turbines

[Deleted User]

Hydro WHAT?

The biggest local generator of water induced electricity is the Denver Water Department. They use it as a brake on the water flowing into the plant from the mountain reservoirs. Other than that, one pump back project and an aging fleet of turbodinosaurs from the federal gubernmint, there AIN'T much hydro in Denver. Mostly natural gas and coal, one decomished nuke/converted (NG) plant.

They've recently turned to NG turbine engines for handling peak demand. Guess that was a big OOPPPPppss recently when their NG suppliers dropped the ball. Rolling black outs in the winter are not fun.. It was that, or run the thermal side out of gas, and the expense to have to send people out to relite pilots was going to cost more than a bunch of irritated electric customers, so they rolled the black out...

PUC is holding hearings as we speak...

THe price of gas here just dropped about 10%. I call it the calm before the storm. WHen it comes time for them to raise it again, they can tell the PUC, "Well, we just lowered the price back in January..."

Some people call it the sling shot effect. They're just pulling back on the rubber bands getting ready to let go...

TWANGGGGggg. Look at that baby go! GO BABY, GO!

No better way to get people to conserve then to grab them by their wallets.

We've not even begun to scratch the conservation/waste heat recovery gold mine that awaits us out there.

I can forsee a car wash with no connection to the gas pipe line using state of the art heat pump equipment and solar collectors on the roof. Same thing for laundromats, and any other energy intensive system. We use heat once and throw it away. We could be recovering 100% of it and augmenting it with solar.

But I digress...

ME


ME

Brad White_61

Just Tweaking...

I always think that out west it is hydro, coal and nuclear, Mark. Now they drank the Nat Gas Kool Aid too. Still, Got Therms? Send some my way~

Brad