More Heating Problems

frank_31

Thanks guys for the quick responses. Sorry for the missing info, i posted that after midnight this morning and could barely see straight. Here are the answers for Al:
1. There was a bubble wrap that was white on onside and I think silver lined on the other put beneath the tubing.
2&3. There are five loops of 1/2" pex.

I cannot remember there being insulation around the slab. I do remember there being something for expansion? between the slab and the wall, if that maybe the insulation. The primary loop is 1 1/2" and the manifold itself I believe is 1 1/4".
I had two seperate heatloss calculations done for the house(which is how I fixed my original problem). I do not have them here infront of me but I remember that both showed that the propane boiler is more than enough for the house. The propane boiler is a Dunkirk Quantum 90, input is 125000btu and output is 112500btu. When it fires it will run for a few minutes to get the boiler to the high limit, then sits for about 10 mins and then fires again to get it back to that high limit. I currently have it set for 135 just because I have the outside boiler running at 185F. When the floor calls for heat the outside boiler can be running strong at 185F and if there is another room or two calling for heat at the same time, the outside boiler blower will run for hours(usually 5-7) burning up an entire load of wood. This causes the outside boiler to drop to the 135 range where the propane boiler kicks on.

I have also tried heating the house with just the propane boiler. It will short cycle constantly just like I stated above. I can stand there and watch the thermometer as its firing. It will climb to the high limit of 185 and then I watch it fall back to firing within 10 minutes. It will continusously repeat this cycle.

Thanks for any help. Sorry for the long winded responses.
Ray

frank_31

More Heating Problems

Well its been months since I was here asking you guys for help prior to moving into my new home. I really appreciate everything that you guys offered. I thought that the heating guys that came in after my contractor hacked the job fixed the problem but I am still having troubles.

I have radiant floor heat in my basement and baseboard in my first floor and second floor. I cannot get my basement floor to come up to temp. The floor supply tubes will be hot(thermometer at supply reads 110F) after mixing. The return tubes are luke warm at best. I have a Taco 007 pumping the water thru the floor. I have closed off the ball valve at the return side prior to hitting the mixing valve and flushed the system from the spigot just prior to the ball valve. I figured that there was air in the lines, to which there was some. I let it run like that for 30 minutes figuring that at least warm water would start to flow from the return lines. No go. I have let the system run for over two weeks, set at 70F, and the only time it shuts off is when the sun is out and heats up my basement thru my windows. I noticed that it will run all night long, causing the system water temps to drop from the 180F range to the 135F range after a whole night, thus kicking on my propane system. **I have the system tied into a water to water heat exchanger that is connected to an outside wood boiler**.

When the basement floor isn't calling for heat the rest of the house heats pretty well, except for my other problem mention below. BUT once that basement floor kicks on, and a couple zones calls for heat, the chane reaction starts. The whole house will be calling for heat by morning with the water temp. being 135F. It will burn an entire firebox of wood in 5 hours for my 2000 sq ft house, in a boiler designed for a 4000sqft max house. The boiler was installed by a very reputable dealer, that has extensive hydronics background. Unfortunately he did not install my entire heating system. Any suggestions on why I am having problems with my floor heat? Not enough pump for the pex line loops which I believe are from 225-285 long?? Mixing valve the problem??? The return water from the floor is like dumping cold water into the system and is draggin the rest of the system down.

The other problem is the zone for my infants room. My house is broken into 5 zones with zone pumps pushing the water. His room is about 12X15 with a 10 foot ceiling coming off 4'knee walls with a 12/12 pitch. His room never seems to stay heated. We have the thermostat set at 74F and it hits that during the day(usually sunny) then runs continuously after that until the next day. I have gone so far as to run his ceiling fan to push the heat down and have insulated the knee walls, since the contractors didn't do it.

I live here in North Central PA near Bradford, PA. I see that Scott Berdine(State College area 100 miles from me) was having similar problems but unfortunatley I am not nearly as understanding of this hydronics subject as he.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I can supply pics and diagrams if needed. I have calls into the local heating guys but NOONE has called me back. Even the guy that originally had "fixed" the problem after the contractors were finished with it. Thanks

Ray

Pinball

First of all Ray, we need to find out a little more info.
1) was the slab insulated from underneath? and perimiter walls?
2) what size PEX is it, 1/2,5/8,or 3/4 ?
3) how many loops in the floor are there?
My first impression is that the supply temp should be alittle higher (around 120*). And second, based on the builders insulating history, (none behind the knee wall), that there may not be any under, or around the slab. Can you say heating the great outdoors?

Also, What size piping is feeding the radiant manifold with that 007? (from the "mix" side of the 3 way valve)? And is this system piped in a "primary/secondary" arrangment?
It also sounds like the boiler cant keep up with the system load. Has anyone, done a heat loss on this house?
And with that, what size boiler do you have? and how much B/B is attached?

Al

ScottMP

Could be many

problems that have been mentioned but my first impression is the boiler is undersized. Seems like it can't keep up.

If the slab is not insualted that could be a huge heat sink. Theres more to this than running the tubing.

Good Luck

Scott

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