Water Spurting Out of #1 Gorton Vent on Return

Steamhead (in transit)

Yes Sir, install a Vaprostat on your system ASAP.
The PA404 pressuretrol is notorious for its lack of accuracy and precision.

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Eric Scheidler

Replaced my return vents . . .

. . . and the news one is spurting hot water.

Yesterday I split the big loops that constituted my steam main (original thread here), added vents (Gorton #1 on the short run, Gorton #2 on the long run, as adviced by Steamhead), dripped the mains down to the wet return line, and replaced the non-functioning vents on the dry return (two Gorton #1's).

Suddenly every radiator in the house is working. That's the good news. The bad news is that hot water is spurting from the #1 Gorton vent on one of the dry returns. You can see the location here (but pictured is the old vent):



Where it says, "Vent on Return" with an old Dole vent there is now a Gorton #1, and it spurts hot water pretty badly.

What is (are) the likely cause(s) of this, and what can I do about it?

Some possibly relevant points:

• The Pressuretrol is set as low as it will go (0.5) and the DIFF at 1.0.
• The Gorton #1 on the other return is working fine.
• The return pipes, which previously were always cold (basically not functioning, with clogged vents are now very hot

Please help me diagnose and fix this problem.

John S.

Somewhere...

steam is getting into the dry returns. They should be cold or at least just warm from returning condensate. A lot of times you'll find a 'crossover' trap from the steam main to the dry return. If not, you may need to install some or F&T traps.

Also, you could have some bad radiator traps that are blowing steam into that dry return.

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Eric Scheidler

The main . . .

. . . is totally separate from the dry return. The two branches of the main drip down below the water line near their ends, then connect to the wet return about 10' from the boiler. So there's no way steam is crossing over from the main.

So it must be the other possibility you mention, that the traps are blowing steam into the dry return -- or possibly I do not have traps -- here's what a typical radiator looks like at the return end:



Now, how to diagnose the problem? I would guess I could figure out if it's just one radiator by running only one of the four on this return line at a time to see what happens (or turning off only one?).

Could it be significant that the return that's got steam in it is serving the main that has the Gorton #2?

John S.

the main vent

has nothing to do with it. That return elbow could be part of an OE system. You can find information on it by clicking on the 'Library' link above.

I believe you're on to something as far as the testing, however, if the 'steam stopping' mechanism in the elbow has been removed on all of the rads, you won't have any luck. Try just feeling the return pipes below the elbow after the rad has heated, shouldn't be steam hot.

Also, do a search for OE. Someone just posted that they ordered some parts for theirs.

Hope this helps.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Don't think that's an OE, John

but it could be an early Kriebel.

Eric, check the drip pipe below the spitting vent to see that it's not plugged. Also make sure the two drip pipes are not teed together above the boiler's waterline.

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John S.

Thanks Steamhead...

You seem to have a way of cleaning up the messes I leave here on the 'Wall'. I hope that I can help some folks out with my limited knowledge and in the meantime continue to learn.

Frank (if I may call you that), I'm having an issue of my own I was hoping you could look at. I have another post on the Wall about it here...

post



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Eric Scheidler

Cleaned the Pigtail . . .

. . . last night, but we're still getting spurting from those valves. It was only one of them spurting before, that I could see, but now both of them are.

They don't spurt all the time. They hadn't done so for about 24 hours when it started up again. So it's hard for me to "catch" them at it.

But I did see them spurting this morning several minutes *after* the boiler had stopped firing. The boiler was quiet, the pipes were quiet, and then suddenly I had a burst of spittle coming out at the return vents.

Any idea what's going on here?

Eric Scheidler

Just watched two cycles . . .

. . . and I've got a little more information.

Everything runs fine as long as the pressure is low. Once the gauge hits about 2psi, it all goes haywire. Up at 3psi, I've got a shower coming out of the vents onto my fresh new insulation, which now looks like crap.

What I'd like to know is why it's getting up to 2psi in the first place, let alone 3. The pressuretrol is set to cut in at 0.5 and the diff is set as low as it can go, at 1. The pigtail is freshly cleaned out.

What kind of scam is going on here with this pressuretrol? I understand that a vaporstat is more sensitive, and I plan to install one ASAP, but the pressuretrol seems to completely suck at doing its job.

If there's some particular reason the pressuretrol is malfunctioning -- filthy boiler, etc. -- I'd like to clear that up first; I can't see where a vaporstat will help if the real problem is outside of the pressure-sensing device.

Back to the vents, both of them vents are spitting, one much worse than the other. The drips are not teed above the water line. Both pipes were installed in March (before we closed on the place), so I doubt they're clogged (I'm sure one at least isn't).

The one that's worse actually doesn't appear to be getting any steam in the return, but near the end of the cycle, or even after the boiler has cut out, it will not only spurt but gush with water.

The other one only spits a little, but the return fills with steam. I have an idea which radiator(s) may be letting it in.

Finally, I looked inside the valve and elbow of one of the radiators. No sign of any orifice in the valve (could be it was replaced, but this one looks mighty old), and no baffle or anything that I could see in the elbow -- just a plain elbow (I couldn't get it off of the pipe to check it out completely and wasn't going to crack the pipe trying to do so).

I stand akimbo.

Steamhead (in transit)

Spitting Vents

Yes Sir, install a Vaprostat on your system ASAP.
The PA404 pressuretrol is notorious for its lack of accuracy and precision.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Gordo is right

we've eliminated all other possibilities. The pressuretrol is letting the pressure get high enough to overcome the "B" dimension on those return lines. Get the Vaporstat and put it on.

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Eric Scheidler

Can you recommend ...

... a particular model? I've found a Honeywell L408A1132 at a controls vendor in the area. Is that what I'm looking for? (There's also a L608A1046.)

Steamhead (in transit)

Vaporstats

> ... a particular model? I've found a Honeywell

> L408A1132 at a controls vendor in the area. Is

> that what I'm looking for? (There's also a

> L608A1046.)

Steamhead (in transit)

L408A1132 or L608A1046 Vaporstats

Yes, those are the ones.

Steamhead (in transit)

Vaporstats

Yes, either one will work. The L408 is a SPST switch that breaks on pressure rise, and the L608 is SPDT switch that can be set up to make or break on pressure rise. The L408 is more foolproof.

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Eric Scheidler

Bought the L408 . . .

. . . but now I'm having trouble setting it. It'll cut out, but not back in. But I've already posted questions about that here and in a little more detail here. I'd be grateful if you'd take a look at one of those and comment.