New Mass regulations?

Bob Harper

I don't see where it stipulates the alarms be hardwired into the fuel controls of the appliances. If they do, then how do you separate out the boiler from the water heater from the stove from the dryer from the gas fireplace from the second furnace upstairs from the.... you get the picture. If an alarm goes off, do they call everyone?
I expect this to get tested in court and fail eventually. First, there was no background for the UL2034 junk alarms as being adequate to meet the intended function. There is no uniformity in the application of this law and no separation of responsibility. As I said this spring when this first came up, yes, the girl's death is a shame but don't dishonor her with panic legislation that may actually lull people into a false sense of security. I'm still waiting to hear the outcome of the trial in Nicole's case, since all this is based on hearsay evidence.

Yes, CO alarms should be in every home. Good CO alarms but not wired in to controls where all they'll do is trigger false alarms til they get snatched loose when you need them most.

*I just installed a liner yesterday for an old couple that had not any heat x6 days. 3 HVAC techs and 1 chimney guy before me didn't spot the 3.5 grocery bags of wet leaves & sticks I pulled out of the flue about 25 feet up. Thank God his spill switch worked. Too bad the water heater didn't have one. The top was scorched to hell. Draft hoods work--unfortunately. I also located the gas leaking in 3 old style shutoffs and replaced them with ballcocks. *
Bob

New boiler buyer

What are the latest Mass CO regulations?

Has anyone heard an update to the Massa CO regulations?

Specifically, are they reguiring hard-wired CO detectors in the sleeping area?

Thanks, I searched the Mass.gov website and couldn't find any further info.

Thanx
BD

joel_19

Yes

It is on the website requires carbon monoxide detectors hard wired in boiler circut , on each floor with bedrooms and you must have a sign over the vent that reads "gas vent directly bellow keep clear of all obstructions" . It must be in 1/2 " or greater letters. You will also need an electrical permit for the detector before you can can get a gas inspection. Enjoy your freedom comrade , in The Peoples Republic of Massachussettes.

midway

Nicole’s Law, requiring every residence in Massachusetts to be equipped with a working carbon monoxide detector, was passed by the Legislature last week. The legislation was named after 7 year old Nicole Garofalo of Manomet who lost her life to carbon monoxide poisoning.

allenh

as filed

In the Year Two Thousand and Five.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AN ACT RELATIVE TO THE INSTALLATION OF CARBON MONOXIDE ALARMS AND SMOKE DETECTORS IN RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:

SECTION 1.

This act shall be referred to and may be cited as “Nicole’s Law”.

SECTION 2. The first paragraph of section 10A of chapter 148 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2004 Official Edition, is hereby amended by striking out the last sentence and inserting in place thereof the following words:- The head of the fire department or the marshal may revoke any such permit for cause.

A fee of $25 may be charged by the head of the fire department for any permit granted under this section, unless otherwise set in a town by the board of selectmen or town council, or in a city by the mayor, but such fee shall not exceed $50 except as provided in this paragraph. If a smoke detector inspection, conducted pursuant to section 26F, and a carbon monoxide alarm inspection, conducted pursuant to section 26F ½, are conducted simultaneously, the owner shall not be subject to an additional fee for the carbon monoxide alarm inspection. The fee for either a carbon monoxide alarm inspection or a smoke detector inspection, conducted separately, shall not exceed: $50 for a single-family dwelling or a single dwelling unit; $100 for a 2-family dwelling; $150 for any building or structure with 6 or fewer residential units; and $500 for any building or structure with more than 6 units.

SECTION 3. Said chapter 148 is hereby further amended by inserting after section 26F the following section:-

Section 26F ½ . (a) Every dwelling, building or structure, including those owned or operated by the commonwealth, occupied in whole or in part for residential purposes, that: (1) contains equipment fossil-fuel burning equipment including, but not limited to, a furnace, boiler, water heater, fireplace or any other apparatus, appliance or device; or (2) incorporates enclosed parking within its structure shall be equipped by the owner with working, approved carbon monoxide alarms in conformance with the requirements of the board of fire prevention regulations. Such requirements shall include, but not be limited to, a requirement that a landlord or superintendent shall install such alarms and batteries or electrical wiring as are required to make the alarms operational at the beginning of any rental period by lease or otherwise and shall maintain or, if necessary, replace such alarms annually thereafter to insure their continued operability.

(b) The board of fire prevention regulations shall promulgate such regulations as may be necessary to effectuate this section including, but not limited to, the type, installation, location, maintenance and inspectional requirements of carbon monoxide alarms.

(c) Every dwelling, building or structure, occupied in whole or in part for residential purposes, shall, upon sale or transfer of such dwelling, building or structure, be inspected by the head of the fire department for compliance with the requirements of this section.

(d) The state building code may impose stricter carbon monoxide alarm requirements than those contained in this section.

(e) The head of the fire department shall enforce this section.

(f) The department of public health shall promulgate such rules and regulations as may be necessary to effectuate subsection (a) into the state sanitary code as established under section 127A of chapter 111.

SECTION 4. Section 27A of said chapter 148, as so appearing, is hereby amended by inserting after the word “protection” , in line 4, the following words:- “or carbon monoxide detection and alarm”.

SECTION 5. Section 26E of said chapter 148, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out, in line 1, the “In any city or town which accepts this subsection” and inserting in place thereof the following word:- “All”.

SECTION 6. Subsection (a) of section 26 F ½ of chapter 148 of the General Laws shall take effect 180 days after the effective date of this act.

SECTION 7. An appeal for an extension of a maximum of an additional 180 days to conform with section 26F ½ of chapter 148 of the General Laws may be filed with the head of the fire department if: (1) the dwelling, building or structure for which the appeal is filed is to be equipped with carbon monoxide alarms that are hardwired into the structure’s electrical system; or (2) the number of units under single ownership or management exceeds 500 residential units; and (3) such appeal is filed within 180 days of the effective date of this act.

allenh

and the last minute ammendment

COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, 2005

AUTHOR: DeLEO

SB2152 HOUSE FLOOR AMENDMENT



Pending the question on adoption of the amendment recommended by the committee on Ways an Means, - that the bill be amended at the end of section 6 by striking out the following: "180 days after the effective date of this act" and inserting in place thereof the following: "on January 1, 2007", -- and the main question on ordering the bill to a third reading, Mr. DeLeo of Winthrop moved that the amendment recommended by the committee on Ways and Means be amended by striking out the text of said amendment and inserting' in place thereof the following:

"by striking out the following: 'shall take effect 180 days after the effective date of this act' and inserting in place thereof the following: -, inserted by section 3 of this act, shall take effect on March 31, 2006, except that any dwelling, bui1ding or structure owned or operated by the commonwealth or any local housing authority which is occupied in whole or part for residential purposes shall have until January 1, 2007 to be in compliance with the provisions of said subsection (a).".



9/28/2005 FURTHER AMENDMENT ADOPTED.

9/28/2005 HOUSE COMMITTEE AMENDMENT ADOPTED.



[9/28/2005 ORDERED TO A THIRD READING (150/0)]





COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, 2005

AUTHOR: GOLDEN

SB2152 HOUSE FLOOR AMENDMENT



Pending the question on passing the bill, as amended, to be engrossed, in concurrence, Mr. Golden of Lowell moved that it be amended in section 3 (as printed), in lines 10 to 16, inclusive, by striking out the words "in conformance with the requirements of the board of fire prevention regulations. Such requirements shall include, but not be limited to, a requirement that a landlord or superintendent shall install such alarms and batteries or electrical wiring as are required to make the alarms operational at the beginning of any rental period by lease or otherwise and shall maintain, or, if necessary, replace such" and inserting in place thereof the words "either in conformance with the requirements of the board of fire prevention regulations; provided, however, that such requirements shall include, but not be limited to, a requirement that a landlord or superintendent shall install either approved monitored battery powered alarms or an approved electrical wiring alarms or approved electrical wiring alarms as are required to make the alarms operational at the beginning of any rental period by lease or otherwise and shall maintain or, if necessary, replace such battery operated or electrical wiring"; and the amendment was adopted.



The same member then moved that the bill be amended in section 3 (as printed), in lines 28 and 29, by striking out the paragraph contained therein and inserting in place thereof the following paragraph:

"(d) The state building code may impose stricter carbon monoxide alarm requirements for new construction or dwellings, buildings, or structures substantially renovated so as to constitute the equivalent of new construction. Every said dwelling building or structure, occupied in whole or in part for residential purposes, shall, upon sale or transfer of such dwelling, building or structure, be inspected by the head of the fire department for compliance with the carbon monoxide alarm requirements of the state building code in effect at the date of the issuance of the subject building permit."; in section 6, in line 2, after the word "Laws", by striking out the following: "shall take effect 180 days after the effective date of this act" (previously inserted by amendment by the House) and inserting in place thereof the following: "inserted by section 4 of this act, shall take effect on March 31, 2006, except that any dwelling, building or structure owned or operated by the commonwealth or an local housing authority which is occupied in whole or part for residential purposes shall have until January 1,2007 to be in compliance with the provisions of said subsection (a)." (previously inserted by amendment by the House) and inserting in place thereof the following: "inserted by section 3 (as printed) shall take effect on March 31, 2006, except that any dwelling, building or structure required to install hardwired carbon monoxide alarms or owned or operated by the commonwealth or any local housing authority which is occupied in whole or part for residential purposes shall have until January 1,2007 to be in compliance with the provisions of said subsection (a)"; and by striking out section 7 (as printed).



10/17/2005 AMENDMENTS WERE ADOPTED.

10/17/2005 PASSED TO BE ENGROSSED.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

It's about time

We had a law requiring carbon monoxide detectors in every house. Bob Gagnon

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Ted_9

Code

so is this any good?



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Unknown

It'[s a difficult situation.

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=199014&_#Message199014

Wallace Radiant Design

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Constantin

From my limited perspective,

... there is a lot of improvement potential. Instead of specifying low-level CO alarms the likes of which are already widely available, the legislature went for the UL2034 variety.

One could argue that specifying UL2034 detectors is worse than nothing, considering how many studies have shown that the indicated CO levels these detector allegedly were showing at any given time were random. If these allegations are true, you could give people the false sense of safety even while they were being poisoned by CO.

allenh

maybe a cost issue?

I think that they start around mid 40 dollars and go up from there. How much more for one you mention?

On a 3 fam house we are looking at one for each floor and one for the basement. That is 4 of them. I do not mind installing them BUT I want to get the right equipment up front and not have them change their minds afterwards and have useless things.

the way I am interpreting this law - local fire dept will be making the rules. And the electrical inspector will be saying how he wants them powered. My electrician doesn't want any part of this stuff - he told me already. Plus are these CO detectors tied into the common smokes? Who is going to make that call - fire or electrical inspection depts?

We are near completion of a totally renovated apt and will hopefully have elect inspection in a couple of weeks. Its in the People's Republic of Cambridge. We will know what they want there and then and post it here.

At least its all residences including singles - although they will not be inspected until the title changes.

ed wallace

new mass regs

great idea but whos going to tell the landlords and home owners people will start hollering when they start getting fined for not being in compliace with the new law

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allenh

some of the landlords -

well the ones that belong to landlord groups - will get the full run down of it.

The singles will only be inspected when title is xfered and that is a fire dept inspection.

I would imagine that 80 percent of the housing owners will not know anything about it. When they see that detectors are about 50 each and they need a couple per house and its over a hundred bucks... how many will spend that? If they are hardwired that is going to be an electrician costing more money. Plus the permit and inspection on top of that. Suddenly its a few hundred IF they have to be hardwired. Any electricians reading this that can answer if they are supposed to be hardwired?

For those of you in private homes what percentage of the people do you think will do this IF they know about it? Assuming its not about to be sold.

Constantin

Good point

As a fellow denizen of the PRC, I know how convoluted some local government processes can become. Hang in there...

As for the question of the cost of quality CO detectors, I guess it becomes a value judgement. Spending $100/detector every 5 years vs. spending less for an allegedly useless detector (according to GAMA, news reports, etc.). For me, the choice was easy, a COExperts unit in every area where there are combustion appliances.

Good luck.

allenh

Is there anyone that would know who is the top person that would be setting all the laws and guidelines? Ya I know that it will boil down the the local community.

I would have thought that fan in the cans would have been a good idea too, especially for those with finished rooms & bedrooms in basements. Are there detectors that sense a lack of oxygen?

The house where this accident happened - didn't that boiler have the safety switch the sensed excessive temp? If a boiler is converted to run on propane does the temp change & someone might have jumped the safety out?

All the secrecy of what exactly went wrong in this house should be out in the public to avoid this happening again.

Bob Harper

The larger question

Date: November 07, 2005 08:47 AM
Author: allen h



"Is there anyone that would know who is the top person that would be setting all the laws and guidelines? .


All the secrecy of what exactly went wrong in this house should be out in the public to avoid this happening again."

The one driving this panic legislation is the State Fire Marshall who ran to the Governor and pestered the hell out of him to throw this together. Very irresponsible. If he was on his game, he would have formed a cmte. to look into CO alarms, venting issues, etc. before anyone had to die. He's scrambling to cover his butt.

The reason for all the secrecy is called "litigation". This case has not even gone to trial. Therefore, the facts in this case are unproven hearsay.

Unknown

“Nicole’s Law”.

What are the real facts about this tragic event? Signs being custom made for $40.00 a pop. the Portland group has run out of them in less than a week. Inspectors are still ignorant.


Wallace Radiant Design

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allenh

Maybe this is a "feel good bill" sponsored by the reps from the area where this occured. One of those ammendments was how much fire depts would charge to do inspections depending on amount of units. And another ammendment was when to have it up and running in mulits (either 180 days or Jan first 07). However singles will not be inspected until title is transferred. Singles in this state are around 60 percent of the housing units.

This accident happened in a single fam & everyone reading this board who is a contractor knows that there are lot of singles out there with code violations. Is it the state reps do not care about singles? Or are they "sacred cows" with potential voters?

I would like to know: 1. what happened to the safety that detected if the temp was too high? 2. Was something jumped out? 3. Just who installed this heating system? 4. Exactly what kind of heating system was it (in case there are more defective one out there *isn't this supposed to be a hazard for everyone?*) 5. How old was it? All I have read is a direct vent on propane... No idea if boiler or furnace. Does anyone know more?

As of today "The (state fire) Board will be in the process of creating these regulations in the near future..."

The impending litagation should be interesting to watch. I would rather know what exactly went wrong a.s.a.p.

Jeff_64

I'm installing a Buderus tomorrow mourning, and need some help with the wiring. I spoke with Buderus tech support earlier about wiring, but I'm still confused about zoning. This system has for zones, I'm confused about wiring with the Logamatic R 2107. Tech support mentioned I needed a isolation relay for the circulator. Could someone please tell me what field wiring I'll have to do between the Logomatic, the 8148E and the isolation relay(name of relay?) Thanks for any held or references

Alan_11

Mass reg.

The way I read this ,all oil burning appliances are included since this refers to fossil fuels.Am I mistaken or do we have to figure in the cost of CO detector installation to every installation job we quote? If required . is it up to the local powers to decide if they must be hard wired? It will be hard to convince someone to upgrade there 1725 burner if it will cost another 500 to 1000 dollars. Looks like more work for the "no permit guys"

allenh

what about fireplaces

are they considered a "fossil fuel burning appliance" in this state?

If you bring in the fire dept to inspect that new CO detector in the basement & outside sign; I would imagine that they will inspect the entire building for smokes and CO detectors.

Jim_53

Updated MA Fuel Gas & Plumbing Code

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Joe_67

Code

Thanks for the info