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12 seer a/cs

In order to actually get somehwat close to the SEER rating, the system must be perfectly charged and perfect;y sized for the given load at any point in time. How often does this happen? In addition, the duct system has to be perfectly sized and the refrigerant lines need to be no longer than the 10-foot length typically used during testing. How often does this happen?

Time will tell...

Comments

  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    12 seer a/cs

    I understand the newer 12 seer and up a/c condersers need to be installed witk air handlers that have tvx valves am i correct

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  • don_182
    don_182 Member Posts: 69
    Not all

    I know Armstrong and I think goodman are getting a rating of 13 seer with a orfice.



  • jim lockard
    jim lockard Member Posts: 1,059
    Be it

    TXV or piston the indoor coil must match with the outdoor unit, or you run the risk of starving or flooding the indoor coil. Warranty is another issue Heil (carrier) and Armstrong (lennox) will void the warrenty on mismatched systems. That said when have you ever had a factory rep come out and check the system? J.Lockard
  • Eugene Silberstein
    Eugene Silberstein Member Posts: 1,380
    Point Taken...

    As I had mentioned in an earlier post, Jim, the manufacturers are not taking a stand (as of yet) on how they will deal with the situation of warrantees on mismatched equipment.

    Since the newer, high efficiency systems are larger and there are often space requirements of the existing system, puttin gin a new air handler for example is next to impossible without doing major renovation work. This definitely poses an interesting situation and I am very interested to see how this plays out.
  • jim lockard
    jim lockard Member Posts: 1,059
    Eugene

    ok but the counter guys at the local R.E. Michels branch and the manager are making these warranty statments. Right or wrong who knows we shall see. Guess I need to ask for a written warranty policy. Best Wishes J.Lockard
  • will smith_4
    will smith_4 Member Posts: 259
    numbers game

    You can take a Honda motorcycle engine that gets 40 mpg and stick it on a Semi-that don't make it a better motorcycle. No matter what the SEER rating is on new equipment, if the ductwork isn't sized right (and I have yet to see an older residential system sized right, supply and return), we're buying smoke and mirrors. How long till we can make our own condensers-say a 2 ton compressor with a four ton condenser coil (which is really all the higher seer equipment is anyway)
  • Eugene Silberstein
    Eugene Silberstein Member Posts: 1,380
    How are You Guys...

    How are you guys faring with the mispmatched air handler/condensing unit situation.

    How are your suppliers dealing withe the whole thing and what information are you presently getting as far as manufacturer concerns and warranty issues?

  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    Great Q:? ....

    No answers as of yet, but if I replace to a mandatory 13SEER cond, but the A-Coil and room does not permit, we'll I have a major PROBLEM. Short of raising the house 2', it not only a design factor but a MONEY factor. No customer wants to hear the new policy and that nothing can be done about it. I usually tell them to talk to Hillary Clinton,.....She'll get to the bottom of it;-) Maybe after a 10.2 mil study. I am pretty miffed about the whole thing. I love the increased EFF, but the customers go into sticker shock from the start.

    Darn-it.... I can see a Mod/Con boiler where you can calc. the end results, but with the A/C 13SEER and higher how can you possibly promise energy savings without knowing what the summer has in store for that customer. I just hope it's a Typical customer, that doesn't hold you to the #'s. But that's not how I do business. I need to present numbers so that my customers have a grasp on what they are buying and WHY!!!...


    Mike T.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,637
    my experences

    What i always do on condenser replacement is if the a/h or coil is older i advise them that the coil or a/h must be replaced if they don't have the money or think i'm BS them i walk .I have been doing this for some time now and do not want the hassle and aurgements and warrany issiues to deal with if they do not want to replace the equiptment with a matched system i walk there is to many head aches already and i always refuse to add another to the worlds list .If you have 10 seer stuff either it's old (20 years ) or cheap job in the first place .I believe trying to match differnt seer stuff is a waste of time and engery and in the long run you lose the HO wins by all your free service calls .Evnen though i see guys still getting 10 seer goodmqan and westing house stuff i refuse to touch it the manafacture dates on some of this stuff is 6 years old plus it benefits no one uses more engerny plus ever job i have seen using this stuff looked like a nitemare plus that 250 dollar goodman compressor labor sticker makes me run away fast .If coil hieght is the promblem which i understand try a rheem n coil they are usually a little shorter then a standard a coil or if on a new furnace which are usually a little shorter you can make it up peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • jim lockard
    jim lockard Member Posts: 1,059
    So far

    Gene its been a little too early to say, But as Mike T suggested once we start ripping into these homes and homeowners wallets, with replacement A/H's. You can expect to see some upset people. As for 10 SEER machines being on the cheap end, for most people north of the M/D line, with a short cooling season 1 to 3 months thats all you need.
    J. Lockard
  • Empire_2
    Empire_2 Member Posts: 2,343
    Clammy

    I to have seen shorter in height coils, BUT at an additional increase static which in most poorly designed houses,...gives me another head ache. I think Carrier N coils offer a lo profile coil @ .325 which is great, but if there is already no room to play, what next??? I am always looking for the perfect match, but sometimes,..Correction usually it is difficult. The faulty thing we call the National Power Grid has failed and they are making the home owner pay the temporary fix. I am talking power consumption.

    I don't want to get to involved with this topic, but I think you know where I am aiming this at.;-) There has to be a better way. Wouldn't it be nice, as the new code code that they raise new builds from this point on 2'? that would solve the immediate problem, but then again guess who pays for it........

    Mike T.
  • mtfallsmikey
    mtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
    What a shame!

    An old childhood friend who became a builder would install no less than a 3'high crawl space, raked smooth, 2" of sand and a vapor barrier. I felt like I was working on a Sleep Number bed! Since I've been out of the biz for a while, I would like to know if these new A/H's can be torn apart any easier than they used to be for installation in a limited space.
  • John_19
    John_19 Member Posts: 14
    north of M-D, why central a.c. anyway?

    Air conditioning is a huge burden on our collective, necessary electric grid. Improving a.c. efficiency is one way to relieve the growing strain on that system. In the north, just 20-30 years ago, central air was a luxury. Now everyone expects it as routine (and so we continue to get fat). People who want it cheap, well, they can always return to room a.c. units.
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