asking for input on equipment/boilers, Pat Linhardt

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info on the wood boilers and your comments on the other lines. Sounds like I might be on the right track. I like to hear that the TT has been a good performer for a while.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

looking for input on equipment selection/boilers

Hi everyone,

I have recently taken a new job here in Cincinnati. I am the hydronic heating division manager at the Habegger Corp-Carrier Div. It is a new position created to promote more boiler sales, along with pumps, controls, etc.

I sold Weil-McLain exclusively for 22+ years at my old supply house, so I am soliciting opinions on some brand names that I am considering adding and/or keeping in the mix at the new supply house. I have the enviable position of being able to pick/choose/create a product line to sell in the Cincinnati, Dayton and Lima Ohio markets.

The current boiler line is Burnham. I am considering Triangle Tube for a gas-fired mod-con and Viessmann for a high-end product. We will continue to carry the Carrier boiler in a limited capacity since we are a Carrier distributor of all things to scorch or freeze air.

Please give me your opinions, good or bad, about your experiences with any of these boiler lines, or any others you may recommend. I will be asking for your thoughts on other product, like pumps, in future posts. My highest priority now is to make the right choices on boilers.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Best regards, Pat

Constantin

Congratulations!

Sounds like a great job and I hope you have many happy years there ahead.

I like your boiler selections, everyone speaks highly of the TT and the Vitodens as a Mod-Con gas-fired unit. I love my Vitola and the attitude of the people that work at Viessmann. That said, the folk at Burnham like Glenn also seem to do their best to keep the customers happy.

Given the resurgent interest in renewables, I would consider becoming a Tarm distributor. However, no matter how great these boilers are, I wonder to what extent you'd open yourself up to a lot of callback situations as installers come up the learning curve.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks for the input

Hi Constantin,

I appreciate the response. Pardon my ignorance, but could you enlighten me on Tarm? We here in the Midwest are on a five year time delay.

The idea is to have Carrier as the good, Burnham and TT as the better, and Viessmann as the best.

Best regards, Pat

Mark Hunt

HS Tarm


Wood boilers. Top of the line IMO, especially their gasification models.

We have been using the TT Prestige for a while now and we are very happy with them.

We use Burnham when we need an oil fired steam boiler, but we have used their other products in the past. Never had an issue with Burnham.

Viessmann, until very recently, had no representation locally so our "V" sales were very low. Definately a top shelf product.

Hope this helps.

Good luck with your new venture Pat.

Mark H

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hr

Also consider Lochinvar

they cover a wide range from multiple mod cons sizes, copper tube boilers and DHW heaters to indirects and storage tanks.

Excellent training and support.

hot rod

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S Ebels

A few thoughts

Do the local code juridictions require ASME {H} rating for heating appliances?

The answer to that question may help you make up your mind between Buderus and Viessmann. From what I understand Buderus doesn't have a true "boiler" rating for their condenser........yet.


Carrier/Dunkirk would be a good starting point. Can't go wrong with Burnham for a good quality broad range product line covering everything from steam to hot water and residential to commercial. Lot's of other stuff/brands on the market that fill niches in product lines like commercial sized US made condensers or lines that are gas only for residential/small commercial like Munchkin.

Keep it simple at first and grow your selection as your new company makes a name for itself in the hydronic trades.

You won't get any quibbling from me for selecting Viessmann as your "best" boiler. Not only from the product standpoint but also the company and everyone involved in it. The whole tribe is first class all the way from top to bottom. They are unique in the heating industry, not just the boiler market. Their product line is becoming broader every year as they figure out they can make it happen "the Viessmann way" here in the USA. There is no product I would rather sell than a Viessmann.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks hot rod

Hi hot rod,

Thanks for the tip on Lochinvar. I come from a cast iron background, but need to be open to the copper-fin. On the commercial side, are you familiar with Thermal Solutions? We are seeing quite a few of them on the new constrution plans. Sounds like they have some features to back up their higher price.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thank you for your thoughts

Hi S Ebels,

I have heard good things about the V-line. In fact I should be going on Monday to look at a few at a rep agency.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice.

Best regards, Pat

Ken_28

TT Prestige

Pat,

We have been installing the Prestige condensing wall mounts for a couple years. We love them. We've put in about 35+ and no probs, customers love them and install goes smoothly. Highly recommend.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks Ken

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like it has been a good relationship. What market are you in? Any customer reservations about the 10 year warranty?

Best regards, Pat

Dale

Dunkirk

I think you have it pretty well set. As to V or Buderus at the high end I think the key is who will give you the best support and parts availability/training. If you have the full range of dunkirk under the C badge that's good too. I see alot of lower input steam dunkirk here and some hot water replacement. I like the little hot water cast iron units as sources on cast iron replacements. Good luck and save some time for fishing.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks Dale

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the info. My buddy was just asking about going on a weekend fishing trip. He has a new 225 Merc on his boat (the infamous Winky from the intro in my book) and cannot wait to wet a line.

Best regards, Pat

Boilerpro_5

Your suggestions .....

are very similiar to what I am carrying. I have the Dunkirk Plymouth and Burnham Independence for smaller steam. I recently added the Slantfin Galaxy for steam both for single home applications and multiple boiler installations. I have found they greatly outperform the other two lines, especially when you look at ease of installation (only single riser used), quality of steam (bone dry) and ease of cleaning (that skimmer trough realllly works!), however they are special order around here and take a little while to get. For larger single steam boilers, the above multiple Galaxys or the Dunkirk D-247, which you can't beat for the large, broad castings, old proven design, and big 4 inch tappings. Just watch out on CSD-1 controls on the Dunkirk....do not follow the manufacturers instructions, it will not work, a lesson that cost my thousands of dollars!
For the very low budget (atmosheric vent) hot water, I use the New Yorkers, which are good, but do have a few "DUH" design or producation flaws (like the damper harness being too short on larger sizes) or the low drafthood Dunkirks.
For the base grade residential, the Dunkirk XEB works, pulling readings of 84% efficiency on my analyzer in the typical smaller sizes and giving very good savings on fuel bills in the replacements I've done. The new Burnham Powervent series look interesting, though, with optional direct air intake and larger btu inputs available.
Next grade up are the Triangle Tube units, which I have 4 110's in in the past 8 months, and 2 250s going in next week in a Nursing Home. I tend to have alot of confidence in ACV (thier parent company) since they have been a specialist in fabricating stainless steel for about 50 years, if I remember right. Not too many other boilers have that claim, or a fully welded heat exchanger..no straps or gaskets in the design.
I have VEissmann as my premium line, but have not had any installs yet....I need to work on getting more literature in customers hands. I definitely see a great place for thier Vertomats in commercial applications.

I'd steer clear of Lochinvar, the factory support and local support have been absolute garbage in the Chicago area in the past, so I dropped them as did my supplier. They'd respond, but not have any real solutions. The same goes for RBI when they were (are?) part of Mestek, local support excellent in the past, but factory doesn't have a clue about fundamentals, it appears. Also, Hydrotherm, another Mestek, poor quality, excellent local support in the past, and another manufacturer that (at least used to) shut down mid winter for inventory (sorry no parts, no heat for a few weeks). I have had very good luck with the Pulse series however. I have 4 M-300's I keep an eye on at our local church retreat center and they are nearly 20 years old, seen alot of abuse, and are still cranking along, now with a newer 4 stage tekmar controller. I installed an AM-100 about 7 years ago, and only replaced a blower motor (a typical pulse problem).
I've always been impressed with Raypack, very durable product in thier atmosheric series that I have worked on, and excellent factory support. They seem to know long ago that in most applications modulating input is required for good operation, expecially with copper tube designs, and have incorporated it in nearly all thier boilers for many years. ... way ahead of everyone else. FYI, the Carrier boilers are rebadged Dunkirks, but with a better warranty program. I'd keep the Carrier line, but be very careful with the condensors.

I see alot of weils in my area, and most of the EG EGH series fail in the first 17 years due to rotted sections on steam or cracks in the legs on hot water, or failed gaskets. Other reputable contractors in the area also see this pattern. CG's, interesting, seem to last a long time. The MGB and LGB's seem to do well if maintained properly, but if abused, you're going to replace them. Also, no parts are available during mid winter inventory, so no heat for 2 weeks for your unfortunate clients.

Boilerpro

Ken_40

To the best of my knowledge...

The only oil-fired condensing boiler in the U.S. is the one I used in the new place here in VT - is the Monitor FCX.

With oil at well over two bucks a gallon and pushing three in many areas, the 92%+ AFUE ratings make it the only real choice if no natural or propane gas is available.

Based on my first-hand experience for a northern VT heating system (-30degree F), the unit is unrivalled.

Considering it is the only #2 fuel condensor out there, it is a high quality and well engineered unit IMHO.

Best regards in your new endeavor!

Unknown

Patrick

Congratulations on your new position. As you are probably well aware, this year is proving to be one of the most exciting years for Burnham and it's distributors with more new new and exciting products being introduced than at any time in the history of the company. If there is anything that we can do to help you at all certainly feel free to ask. Ron, Ken, Matt, Dan or I will be available whenever you need to help your business grow.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks boilerpro

Hi Boilerpro,

Thanks for sharing the info. This all helps me tremendously. I will look at some of your suggestions.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks Ken

Hi Ken,

Always good to hear from the great north woods! I do not think we are going to get to the oil side of condensing boilers yet. This territory is predominately gas-fired equipment. But as I learn the northern parts of our market, I might find that there is the need. Thanks for the tip, good luck with the retirement and teaching.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks Glenn

Hi Glenn,

I am working with Bill Hollyday at Weber-Huff here in Cincinnati to determine a stocking order for Burnham Hydronics. Habegger has sold the line for years, but did not know much about wet heat. My task is to bring the expertise formerly lacking into the organization and out to the customers.

I look forward to working with you in the future. Please feel free to contact me at any time.

Best regards, Pat