Weil McClain Boiler

Unknown

U must have too cool water returning to hot boiler... Was it a gravity conversion job? Any pictures of your boiler system will help..

Barry_7

Weil-Mclain Boiler

I have a Weil-Mclain Gold oil fired boiler,probably 125,ooo BTU's,that is approximately 10-11 years old,installed new in 1995 or 1996 that I have had nothing but problems with plugging up.I have it cleaned each summer/early fall but sometimes I still need a second visit during heating season because it plugs up.My home is a 2 1/2 story house in Rochester,NY with a 2 pipe forced hot water system.My question is can the Weil-McLain be converted safely to Gas Fired or do I need to just replace the entire boiler?If it can be converted exactly how is that done? Any help,comments or suggestions will be greatly apprciated.Thank you.

Unknown

If it`s

plugging up(I assume you mean sooting-up), it`s likely piped into your system incorrectly, too cool return water for too long a duration will do just that,,,can you post a few pics?
Edit-Check out the condensation running out of this WM gas unit, if this is happening within yours the by-products of the burned oil will stick to it, and plug it in no time.

Dave

Rich Ferris

Look under search for this very same problem

Punch in W/M in search and look at the postings for W/M driving me crazy. Good Luck

Rich

j carta_5

bypass

i agree as previously stated -if the return water is too cold -the boiler will condense and plug up -converting to gas will not solve the problem-if your house was a gratity system or has the large ci rads you will need a by pass installed to help keep the return temp up high enough to prevent condensing -if your set on gas replace the boiler dont convert it over but thats my opinion-please post some pictures of the boiler and piping

Jim Davis_7

Water Temp??

Never seen water temperatures cause oil equipment to soot up. Sold oil fired water heaters for years and they use much colder water than a boiler. Sooting is caused by improper burner set-up or some installation problem. A new boiler would probably do the same thing. Nothing wrong with the one you have, just need someone good with oil burners to work on it. Sooting is a sign that someone doesn't know how to work on oil very well or diagnose problems.

Unknown

Gotta disagree with you Jim,

while oil-fired water heaters do handle cooler water temps at initial start-up, or if their capacity is constantly exhausted cold, these will soot-up too even with the best burner settings. Their HX is not as "intricate" as a boilers, basically up & out. Under normal conditions the cold inlet water is mixed within the tank itself and the burner starts before its storage capacity becomes "stone cold".

Dave

Steamhead (in transit)

Barry, it shouldn't generate soot at all

There's either a problem with the way the burner is set up, or with the system piping. It could be something as simple as the wrong nozzle or air adjustment, or something more complicated.

First, get a different oil tech in there- one who knows what he's doing. I bet your current nozzle-changers don't even use combustion analyzers or smoke testers.

If the burner is set up properly and burning with zero smoke, and doesn't have a hard light-off or shutdown problem, it could be a return water temperature problem. Sometimes this is caused by a circulator that's the wrong size.

Bottom line is, you need a real pro. Try the Find a Professional page of this site.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Rusty Powers

oil burners 201

Barry,

My guess is a damaged firebox target wall and/or high vacuum on the inlet to the oil pump.

It's the domino effect.
A weak oil pump, plugged oil filter, kinked oil line,lean flame, dirty oil line, air leak on the suction line, or low oil pump press all give the same symptom- an unstable flame.
Once the flame starts jumping off of the retention ring, the firebox takes a beating.....on any oil fired appliance.
I'll bet money your firebox is shot. But, simply replacing it is only treating the symptom. The challenge is finding the cause.

Hope this helps!

Rusty


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Jim Davis_7

Okay to disagree Dave but I also sold oil boilers for 25 years and ran them down to 100 degrees on outdoor reset and never had soot or condensate problems. It is all in the burner setup and control settings. Soot comes from poor fuel-air mix and burner setup & condensate comes from underfiring or poor venting not water temps.

Unknown

My intent Jim,

was not to question your experience, but I have had them(boilers) soot-up with perfect combustion and stack readings, re-piped to P/S to increase return temps, and the probs went away.

Dave

Jim Davis_7

I knew you weren't questioning my experience, no problem. Just don't know how complete combustion can change back to incomplete combustion and soot. Don't disagree that you changed the water temperature and somehow your soot problem disappeared. Just can't think of any logical reason or principle that changing water temperature could make an oil burner operate cleaner?? Not saying it didn't happen just can't figure out how its possible??

wholesaler

OH they love to plug up

Low mass boilers installed on large mass systems (without precautions) equals:

Gas boilers- rotted jackets, dripping blocks, "chalked" and rusted components and venting

Oil Boilers - all the above but add plugging up. The additional combustion products of fuel oil love to stick to wet cast iron sections, especially the ones with tight passageways and fingers.

Answer me this, if oil burned so clean why would we be doing a smoke reading and cleaning every year??

Getting the temp up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit and over within the first minute or less on firing is crucial to stopping this from happening, especially with oil.

Weil McLain shows 2 suggested piping diagrams in their I&O manual for this boiler. One is for installations above 140 degrees and one is for below 140 degrees. They put this in for that very same reason, just never tell you why.

Large two pipe systems, large pipes, large convectors, cast iron radiators, I bet the water temp barely if ever makes it over 140 before stat is satisfied.

Piping changes at the boiler will remidy this and it can be done with a thermostatic bypass or perhaps boiler bypass or system bypass depending on system requirements, circulation and piping.

Robert O'Brien

I

have to agree with Jim,constant cold return water doesn't cause sooting.It causes condensation which creates scale that creates restriction across the H/X and that causes sooting.
Rare with baseboard in a non- cold start system. The Gold and older AFG's aren't a good marriage.Upgrade to a new AFG or at least upgrade to PSC motor,oil valve,7184

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Big Bob_2

The Early Weils had a huge pressure drop thru the Boiler, todays Weils say Series 3, back then they were called Series 1, it says it on the lable on the left side of the boiler. The new Beckett burners are remakably improved over those old ones, a Weil supply house will have a new one to fit it.

Unknown

Thanks Brian,

that is "exactly" the point I was trying to make! And without getting into all the "points of creation" again,,they will plug-up with, none the less soot, right?

Dave

Jim Davis_7

Oil flames hit over 3000 degrees in a matter on seconds. Don't know too much condensation that this won't evaporate. If the fireside of the boiler is wet it is probably leaking. The only other by product of oil combustion would be sulfur depending on the oil and that doesn't stick real well. If an oil appliance needs major cleaning every year it wasn't set right or it had a mechanical failure. In the boiler in question the burner setup sounds like the only problem. All other issues with gas and oil boilers have to do with poor venting and poor combustion, not water temperatures.

Unknown

So,

the whole procedure of P/S piping w/thermostatic valves to protect a boiler from low water temps is not required on oil?. Just allow any condensation to be burned off without taking precautions? I guess we should "directly connect" oil units? Then like Brian says above, what are we cleaning them for? I think many will disagree with you here,,especially me! If you can set a burner-up so perfectly under low return temps that sooting never happens,,,Kudos to you, as you must be the best oil-burner guy in the world!

Dave

Al Gregory

Probably an old AFG or QB burner? If so replace with Carlin and problems go away.

Unknown

> the whole procedure of P/S piping w/thermostatic

> valves to protect a boiler from low water temps

> is not required on oil?. Just allow any

> condensation to be burned off without taking

> precautions? I guess we should "directly connect"

> oil units? Then like Brian says above, what are

> we cleaning them for? I think many will disagree

> with you here,,especially me! If you can set a

> burner-up so perfectly under low return temps

> that sooting never happens,,,Kudos to you, as you

> must be the best oil-burner guy in the

> world!_BR__BR_Dave

Unknown

How low is too low ?

We install alot of Weil Gold 3Ls with Riello burners . I've noticed on initial startup , with the water temp probably in the 50s somewhere , there is a small amount of soot produced for the first few seconds . And condensate too . After heatup the fire and the combustion efficiency are on the money . I have a new digital camera with very good video capabilities . I'll try to film the next startup .

It's something we see time and again - fire into a cold boiler and you get a wild flame till it heats up some . It becomes a non-issue with our installs . Most of em use a coil .

I know a cold boiler and water effects the flame . But how low can you safely run a boiler temp without getting into trouble ?

Barry_7

re;weil-mclain boiler soot problem

I haven't been able to use the computer for the past week or so first I would like to thank everyone for their responses.I will try to answer each very quickly.1.)Yes it is an old gravity system,with cast iron radiators, that was modernized with a circulator approximately 25 years ago,we had an old Weil-Mclain boiler that was probably 6 foot long,4 1/2 feet high and 2 1/2 feet wide.Never any problem with it, it just got old.at least 45 or 50 years but never a problem.2.)I will try to get some pictures this week.3.I have one of the largest oil companies here in the area service it,at least once a year,and they do smoke tests,combustion tests etc., they say it is drawing/drafting o.k. etc.4.) The nozzles have been changed each time and gone from,I believe .80 or.85 to 1.25 gal/hour.If anyone knows of anyone in the Rochester,NY area that may be of help please feel free to contact me.I notice no one suggets converting to Gas. Any reason? Again thanks for all the responses

Daniel_3

Talk to my man Jim Bennett! Do a search under pros or the forum itself. He lives in Webster.

Boilerpro_5

Cold Water can = Cold Flame = Poor combustion

I have very little experience with oil, however, you get a gas flame too cold, CO will skyrocket and I would expect soot as a possible outcome.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"