Snow Melt for Steps???

Dick_3

We have a customer which would like us to install snow melt in a set of new steps. The base of the steps will be poured concrete as the foundation, then 2'' thick limestone stepping stones will veneer the top of each step. The face of each riser will also be veneered with 2'' thick limestone.

We've done successful snow melt jobs on concrete steps before, but this is the first job the steps will be covered with limestone. We're concerned with proper heat transfer and having enough heat to melt the entire step, including the leading edges.

The customer is very demanding and we don't like disappointments. Any advise or input is appreciated. Thanks.

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hot_rod

sure you can

I've used 1/2 PAP attached to the top of the concrete step. Then the mason can mud set right over the tubes.

6" on center for the spacing and short loop lengths with 1/2". the very tip of the tread is the critical point to melt.

Try to insulate under the first concrete stairway pour as best you can.

Challanging, but do-able.

Electric mats or cable would be very simple to install but possibly more expensive to operate. How often would it be required to melt?

hot rod

Al Corelli_2

I have done this.

If you give me a snail mail address, I can mail you a CD with pics that should help.

Tube placement is critical for edge of stair tread melting.

Too many pics to post here.

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Dick_3

The customer would operate the snow melt whenever there may be a chance of ice or snow from November to March. The operating cost is secondary, the primary concern is to keep the steps dry and "slip free" in the winter months. The customer is demanding with high expectations, so the tips of the steps must melt under all conditions.

Other than easier to install, would the electric perform better than the hydronic? Seems like we may be able to engineer in more btus/sq ft with the hydronic to insure dry steps.

It would be nice to get the heat directly into the stone steps by routing out the bottoms for the tubing, but the stone mason probably won't appreciate the extra work.

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Mark Hunt

Watch out for


step areas that over-hang. You will melt the snow/ice that is directly over the tubing but areas that extend beyond that point will most likely freeze.

Mark H

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hot_rod

contact Ada at Delta Therm

she has done some fairly impressive commercial snowmelt projects in the Chicago area and other critical applications.

As long as you have the juice to power it the electric is 100% efficient.

Probably glue the cable down with construction adhesive.

hot rod

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I've never constructed such but that's never stopped me from offering suggestions:

1) The only thing worse than a snow/ice covered stairway is a stairway that looks somewhat "clear" compared to snow/ice covered ground around it.

2) The absolute worst thing on steps is "black ice". A REAL possibility if you have an initial melt with some puddling (almost inevitable on a staircase) followed by weather cold enough to overwhelm the melting--even for a short period--where you get that dreaded "black ice". "Black ice" is essentially a thin layer of "insulating" water covered by a thin layer of utterly clear ice such that the surface looks only "wet".

3) As I recall, there are three classes of snowmelting. I may have this backwards, but class I is for things like helicopter landing pads where you not only melt, but you EVAPORATE in real time. Class II melts in real time. Class III allows some accumulation with melting expected in say 24 hours. Personally I would consider ANY staircase to be Class I--melt AND evaporate. It takes LOTS of BTUs to accomplish this. Anything less and I'd say the melting could become more of a hazard than an assistance with the good old snow shovel and/or salt and/or doing nothing a preference.

If you do a Google search I believe you'll find the standards for the three classes of snowmelting.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

NM

double post

ALH_4

Steps

Is it best to run the tube across the steps or up and down the steps?