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Panel Rads

I am partial to Runtal. They may cost more than the Veha, Buderus and Myson stamped metal lines but I like the look and variety better, including the towel warmers.

Certainly if you are only installing only one, I would spring for one you like the best. Nothing says you cannot use a towel warmer AND a convector. I have both plus radiant floor in my 60 SF master bathroom.

As for DHW? Indirect. Tankless has it's place but I have always encountered issues in talking to users (including family members). Issues such as waiting for hot water if too far away, cooling along the way (distant runs of existing non-insulated piping) and fluctuations in temperature. Flow rate is the limitation, not volume. Filling a tub is one thing, simultaneous showers, tub filling, laundry and dishwasher can find you. Indirects have always served me well.

Comments

  • Ray_13
    Ray_13 Member Posts: 15
    Panel Rads & Supp Heat

    I'm building a house for myself Hopewell Jct. NY, the entire house will be hydronic radiant. I'm using warmboard (after much great advice here) for the 1st and 2nd floors -- basement and garage to be radiant in concrete slab. After doing the heat-loss, the only room which needs supplemental is the Master Bath --not much floor space due to jacuzzi platform. I like towel warmers, but feel as though they are a lot of work for a small output (I need about 1500 btu/hr) Any idea on who makes panel rads that actually look nice?
    If it matters, I'll be using a GB142 with injection pumps to get my 3 different water temps.
    Also, any advice on dhw -- indirect or tankless?

    Thanks,

    Ray S.
  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    More tubing

    Why not just add more tubing in the walls, around the jaquzzi and shower area.
    Skip the panel rad.
    Also, motorized mixing valves like the Taco i-series are a good option , instead of injection.
    I second the indirect.

    Take a look at my FAP ad. I have a system nearby in Lagrange, with this setup and the GB142. Owner very happy.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,981
    Check me if I'm wrong Brad.....

    but I believe he said the magic word....Jaccuzzi.

    I'm thinking Ray is going to need some considerable storage for hot water to fill anything made by them.

    As long as you're going with the GB142, why not consider a Buderus indirect? HTP/Super Stor is another great product you might consider.

    If you're going to need "unlimited" hot water, we've installed a couple Turbomax units that fit the bill quite nicely...and are a bit more expensive.

    As far as panel rads., I prefer the look of Buderus/Dianorm or Veha to the fence looking Runtals.(personal choice, no jab Brad!) Chris
  • Maine Doug_62
    Maine Doug_62 Member Posts: 7
    In my master bath,

    I have a Veha towel warmer as a zone on the floor radiant injection system. It is positioned next to the bathtub below a window. Windows are high since the living space is below ground so the windows are on the upper portion of the walls. The colder it gets outside-- the hotter the towel rack.
  • Brad White_171
    Brad White_171 Member Posts: 22
    You got it, Chris

    He did say "Jaccuzzi". I figured a properly sized indirect can serve that. If only once a week then a tankless might make sense. At least the standby losses are not much. I find the recovery superb but as you are right to mention (or infer by your pointing it out), it may tax the boiler and work against the heating side.

    No jab taken on the preference of radiators, Chris. It is all subjective. I like their "heft" and as for the fence look, I have a variety from vertical panels to the horizontals, the "bike rack" type too. All personal preference.


  • I personally would generally go for an electric towel warmer unless you are using high temp water for something else already. The reason being that you may want to install this just for supplemental heat now... but after it's in for awhile, you might get out of your shower to a cold towel and go.. hmm... I thought this was a towel warmer, why can't I have warm towels?

    So to be able to use it for supplemental OR towel warming, electric is just easier, typically.

    I don't see why you need 3 temps here either. Slab is forgiving if you use good thermostats. Heck, if you drop 2 of the temps and run it all one temp, you could probably go all the way to a tn4 system which would manage it just fine, unless you've got high temp here you are not mentioning such as baseboard.

    So I'd run it all at warmboard temp (unless you have wide variance in your warmboard temps?), let the DHW priority do its job, skip the mixing, do an electric towel warmer OR a loop of radiant wall/ceiling in the bath for supplemental heat.. heck, maybe a warmboard jacuzzi deck... and let tN4 run the whole thing, personally.

    But that's me ;)
  • Ray_13
    Ray_13 Member Posts: 15
    I was leaning towards

    electric towel warmers for that same reason. As far as indirect, I was thinking of 80 gal. Buderus or Phase III. Shame is as you all know, that jacuzzi will probably never be used after the first 6 months or so.
    I figured on 3 temps: one temp for hardwood/tile, one temp for the carpeted bedrooms (I know my wife won't pick out anything radiant-friendly), and one temp for the basement, since I have no idea how I will finish that floor in the future -- could be anything.
    I like the idea of radiant in the tub platform. Of course, if I had my way, I'd have a claw-foot tub, which would give me plenty of coverage on the floor

    Ray S.
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,981
    Ray,

    If the walls and surround for the tub are going to be finished....Singh made a wonderful suggestion.

    My first radiant job was in a bathroom for an assisted living facility, and that was what the architect spece'd for the bathrooms. I was skeptical at first, but after thinking it out...I was amazed at the thought.

    H.R. has posted some wonderful pictures of how to do it correctly, and I think that if you see them, you'll agree.

    I can't believe I missed something that simple.Dopey me ! Chris
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    Photos

    A few photos that might help illustrate some of the methods discussed above.

    I agree with Devan, radiant walls are a good way to go where floor and open wall area are scarce. The radiant wall photos attached show Thermofin-U installed in walls where radiant floors were either not possible or supplemental heat was needed. This could easily be done behind your shower walls. If these are exterior walls, make sure those heated walls are very well insulated.

    As far as DHW, I agree with Brad that an indirect is the best way to go since you have the highly efficient GB sitting there. Tankless water heaters have too many issues with reliable temperature delivery for intermittent use of fixtures. I also feel it is best to minimize the number of fuel-burning appliances in your home. It is simply less to break.

    As Rob said, electric towel warmers usually make the most sense, because your boiler temperature is dictated by the emitter that needs the hottest supply temperature. However, hydronic towel warmers are certainly possible with an appropriate control strategy (2 temps and an external demand for the towel warmer). In addition to the "ladder" style towel warmers, Stelrad also makes a radiator that doubles as a single towel warmer, and it will still provide heat to the room, even if there is a towel on the bar. That might not be the best option for warming towels in the summer.

    I am not sure of your heat load, but be very careful with radiant in the carpeted areas. You may not be able to get the floor warm enough to heat the room. Supplemental radiators might be necessary to heat those rooms during cold periods. For that reason, I recommend skipping the radiant in the carpeted areas and installing panel radiators. Stelrad makes some really nice steel column radiators. VEHA makes high quality, reasonably priced standard panel radiators.

    As a general control strategy, constant circulation with TRV's and FHV's is the ultimate in efficient radiant, as I see things. The Oventrop Unibox is one example of a FHV for controlling your radiant floors. Thermostatic radiator valves are an excellent match for your panel radiators, should you choose to go that way.
  • Radiant Wizard
    Radiant Wizard Member Posts: 159
    Panel Rads

    Your in my neighborhood as I am in New Windsor...I can help you out with the rads. We sell Radson and Vasco. You can check them out out hydronicalternatives.com.
  • Radiant Wizard
    Radiant Wizard Member Posts: 159
    Follow-up to the supplement heat

    I taking it that your whirpool is a drop in. If so, use the floor board as you subwall and then tile over. You can also do the same in the shower wall area to make up the btu's you should have plenty of loop length left after your floor based on my assumption that you are limited on floor space based on your information.

    I definitely would use an indirect over a instant as they limited you to gpm roughly around 3.5 gallons.
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