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Comercial mod/con?

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Dave_12
Dave_12 Member Posts: 77
You may want to look at the Lochinvar Knight in a multiple boiler setup.

The Knight comes in seven sizes, with the KBN500 being the largest at 500 MBH input. The output of the KBN500 is 451 MBH, or higher with outdoor reset and low temp returns. The unit modulates with 5:1 turndown. Compared to the pulse technology, the Knight is whisper quiet. This becomes extremely important as many pulse owners find out too late.

With the Knight, a built-in sequencer allows you to hook up to (8) Knight boilers in a "cascading" arrangement. Simply interconnect with twisted pair wire and they work together, with the lead boiler controlling the others for lead/lag, etc. With (8) boilers serving the same system, you get 8 boilers x 5:1 turndown each = 40 turndown of total output, which will really do well for efficiency. You will also have very good redundancy during service.

Eight KBN500 Knights equates to about 107 HP, which will heat a fairly large commercial building. You of course can install more than (8), you just to have an external sequencer. With the first (8), no extra cost as the sequencer is built-in as shipped from the factory.

Our firm has been involved in numerous multiple Knight commercial installations, and in fact is involved with (8) KBN500's in a (10) story housing authority building (boilers currently being installed).

Check out the Lochinvar web site for more information on this exciting product.

Something else to consider is the large stock of Knights and other boilers at the factory. As of today, there were over 135 KNB500's sitting in the warehouse ready to ship. If you need several for a job, or if you need to replace one that went under water or was damaged, it is very comforting to be working with a company that invests in a large inventory located in middle America just outside of Nashville, TN.

Hope this helps with thoughts on commercial mod/cons. There are a lot of options, and I feel that Lochinvar offers one of the best.

Comments

  • Ted_5
    Ted_5 Member Posts: 272
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    Has anyone installed

    or serviced a Fulton condensing boiler? Where would you rank Fulton in quality and reliability compared to other 2000 MBH boilers?

    Thank you,

    Ted
  • Josh_10
    Josh_10 Member Posts: 787
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    Fulton Pulse? They are okay. I would certainly consider them over some of the other commercial Mod/Cons. However you MUST set them up properly!!! Additionally pay attention to venting. They are extremely noisy on the combustion side so plan to install mufflers. Servicing can be a pain as not all parts are very accessible.

    If you are looking for some really good commercial Mod/Cons you should consider the Aerco KC-1000/BMK 2.0 or the new KN series boilers.

    Just my opinion..

  • Ken_40
    Ken_40 Member Posts: 1,320
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    Josh is right,

    Take a look at the Aerco line. Been around a long time, well engineered and well into the upper 90% efficiency range. Quiet, packaged and made in the U.S.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Ted_5
    Ted_5 Member Posts: 272
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    Have you ever

    installed or worked on a Viessmann Vertomat? How about a Weishaupt burner? If so, were parts hard to find? Did they need much service?

    Ted
  • Dave_4
    Dave_4 Member Posts: 1,405
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    Thermal Solutions

    Take a look at the new Thermal Solutions Mod/Con, I've used a few of their 88%'s and they are a real nice unit.
  • Josh_10
    Josh_10 Member Posts: 787
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    Ted,

    I used to work for a Weishaupt rep. Great burner however parts are indeed hard to come by. Check with your local rep and see about parts.

    Weishaupts aren't for amateurs either. Direct ignition generally. They can be loud and intimidating. You can forget everything you know about power burners. There is the right way, the wrong way, and the Weishaupt way. Allot of custom machined parts and they generally come with a german (siemens) flame safeguard that is unlike any American flame safeguard. It literally spits out Hieroglyphics instead of error messages.


    I can't say anything about the combo with Viessmann. I have worked on em but not extensively.

    As far as service goes there are always issues with any burner. The motors are always failing on the Monarchs. I just had to send one off for re-winding a couple of weeks ago for a school district.
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
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    Commercial/Institutional ModCon Boilers

    In order of personal preference, the Commercial Mod Cons I would specify would be these:

    Viessmann Vitocrossal (nee' "Vertomat") with a Weishaupt burner.

    Aerco Benchmark 2.0 (now available in a 3.0)

    Hydrotherm KN (6, 10 and 20 models, cast iron condensing) especially where low utility gas pressures are prevalent.

    Cleaver-Brooks Clearfire

    Buderus SB-615 and 735

    The Clearfire and Buderus offerings have been specified but in the end have not made it to the job in favor of the other names, so no "closed loop experience" on the latter two names.

    I have seen the Fulton condensing boiler (not the pulse type) come across my desk but have never specified one. It looks fine "on paper" with a 3-pass stainless plate design. Never have seen one in action.
  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    AERCO ...all the way, baby

    viessman ...?? noooo parts //
    fulton = rotbucket, carbon steel one //
    hydrotherm .. no track record
  • Kevin__Flynn
    Kevin__Flynn Member Posts: 74
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    mwsmith \"noooo parts\"

    What do you mean "noooo parts"? Was there a specific part that you tried to attain and were unable to? Do you have examples? Are you saying that AERCO parts are always readily available when you need them? Is it possible that that AERCO parts are more readily available becasue they need to be. It sounds like, perhaps you speak from experience which surprises me becasue I know that there is a 38,000 square foot Viessmann building located in Rhode Island that contains just about every part imaginable. If that weren't enough, there is another even larger building located just outside of Toronto, Canada. Both locations should be able to overnite ship any part to anywhere on the continent in an emergency. As far as Viessmann Boiler parts, the boiler doesn't really have any moving parts that would ever need to be replaced. Maybe you are reffering to the power burners that Viessmann uses. These are manufactured by either Weishaupt or Riello. Weishaupt has locations in both Missisauga, Ontario and Chicago, Illinois. Riello has locations in Massachusetts as well as Canada also. That brings the total to four possible locations that should be able to supply any part you would need, not to mention the many Reps and supply houses located throughout the US & Canada that also handle the products.


    Kevin Flynn

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    Hmmmnnn.....

    who do YOU work for, Kevin ...??

    Paul Ross ..??
  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    and ..

    i've been to Kitchner, Ontario
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,752
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    2000 mbh boilers

    I installed one of the Thermal Solutions 2000mbh 88% boilers, was quite impressed with it. In 3 years, no repair calls on this unit. That in itself makes it a candidate. Tim
  • Kevin__Flynn
    Kevin__Flynn Member Posts: 74
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    Mr Smith (I'm Assuming)

    In lieu of answering the questions and taking the time to validate your claims with facts you have chosen, instead, to attempt to "out" me as being a Viessmann Rep.

    I read Dave's post below and while I may or may not agree with his boiler of preference, I respect that he used facts and technical based data to back-up his opinions. This could have been the path you might have chosen, to tout the benefits of the Aerco Benchmark or KC-1000. Instead your choice was to make the claims that Viessmann does not have parts and that Fulton was a "rotbucket".

    Even when given the oppurtunity to validate your claims (at least your Viessmann claim) you elected instead to try and embarrass me.

    For the record; I do not, nor have I ever, worked for Paul Ross. I do however, represent the product. This would have made it even more important to describe your issue(s) with parts. If this were an issue, I may have been able to work to insure that it didn't happen to someone else.

    Kevin Flynn (whats your name??)

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    well, I do not, nor ever had worked for Aerco

    tell me ..
    can I go to the supply house, and buy a Landis & Gyr FSG programmer ??

    UV detector ..??
  • Josh_10
    Josh_10 Member Posts: 787
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    > well, I do not, nor ever had worked for

    > Aerco

    >

    > tell me .. can I go to the supply

    > house, and buy a Landis & Gyr FSG programmer

    > ??

    >

    > UV detector ..??




    True, however have you ever tried to get a C-More control on a supply house shelf? Or a stepper motor for the air fuel valve? Or the proprietery flame rod or igniter?

    On the other hand I agree with you on the Aerco. I worked on them for 2 years straight. It is a great boiler. When treated properly it will be the most reliable of the two in my opinion. And I think it is very easy to work on with proper training.

    The C-more control is absolutly amazing. I think it is the most versatile control in the industy. It can accept any type of modulating signal including remote setpoint or direct drive. My only complaint is that it requires a floating ground which may cause you to have to install a signal isolater.
  • kal_2
    kal_2 Member Posts: 60
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    i second the motion...

    i have 13 knights installed - 2 residential - the rest commercial - and i still recommend them highly - had one come visibly damaged by the shipper - yet the only thing wrong was the combustion fan hanging up and my local rep wallace-ennace fixed it forthwith and had no problems getting parts - they would have would have swapped it out right up front - but by the time I saw it - the workers had already piped it in so it was too late for a ship damage claim swap out

    it’s real sweet having a boiler room that could put out as much as 4 million (with 8 knights) or as little as 100k – 8 by 5to1 each = 40 to 1 turndown – and it you mix sizes – ie: you can have 4 500’s, 1 399, 1 285, 1 150, 1 80, use external modulators you match the load down to 16kbtu – such a setup not only more than matches areco’s turndown – but gives you a lot more reliability (safety in numbers)

  • mwsmith
    mwsmith Member Posts: 10
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    i have a C-More, a Mod box,for both KC, and BMK and a CCC box on my truck
    i have a KC, and a BMK fuel/ air valve on my truck,
    at the shop, i have a BMK, and a KC H.X.

    Dude ... I'm STOCKED ....
    LOCKED
    and Ready to Roll .... :>))


    )
  • Uni R_3
    Uni R_3 Member Posts: 299
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    Cascading with different sized boilers

    Kal, how does it work with different sized boilers if the control is automatically rotating the sequence of boilers to even their run times?
This discussion has been closed.