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90+ Condensate Acidity?

RonWHC
RonWHC Member Posts: 232
in THE MAIN WALL
a slightly acidic soil. Azaleas, Rhododendron, Laurel, Holly, love acid w/ PH below 6. Interesting problem.

Comments

  • Unknown
    Unknown


    I just had a 80% vs 90% furnace discussion with a homeowner and he's concerned about the condensate coming off the furnace being acidic and that the State of CT required some large project to neutralize before discharging it. Anyone know anything about this? His sump goes to his flowers.
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    Neutralization Unit

    Viessmann has a neutralization unit to deal with this. Many have made their own from limestone chips.
  • jp_2
    jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
    chips

    and you can get the limestone chip in the lawn and garden department at home depot
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
    The condensate goes in

    highly Chassidic but comes out something much more Orthodox.

    (:^)>
  • Unknown
    Unknown


    There is a town just north of NYC (I think) that is almost entirely Hasidic. Can any of you New Yorkers help me out with the name? I can't remember it anymore and it's been driving me nuts for years now. ;)

    Thanks, I found this:

    http://www.hvacloads.com/talkpdf/condensateanalysis.pdf

    and this so far:

    http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/94/941108.html
  • L'town radiant
    L'town radiant Member Posts: 36


    As it has been hinted on here already, making you own kit is very easy....a section of pvc pipe filled with limestone chips, one end tapped to connect condensate hose from equipment, and the other end tapped to connect hose to go to a drain. probably 2in pipe and 3/4in hose. Also, many equipment manufacturers have premade kits that they'll sell you.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,640
    What is the sump pit built of?

    you may be able to add some marble or limestone chips into the sump pit to raise the ph before discharging.

    That is all the kits do is pass the fluid thru some chips.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Unknown
    Unknown


    Interesting, how long do the chips last?

    I didn't poke my head down the sump but I like the idea. I think this one is going to go 80% anyways. They go to Fla for the winter and he doesn't want to have to rely on a combustion blower. I'm thinking I have to line the chimney though. His existing furnace has a B valve on it. Been a while since I seen one of those.

    I'm just thinking back on all the other ones I've done and never knew this. But they either went into a septic tank or were done under various local permits and no city official ever said anything to me about neutralizing so I should be good! :)
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,640
    depends on the chips

    and how many gallons of condensate that runs thru them, I suppose.

    You would want a plastic pit with a plastic pump and piping. That is basically how those small condensate pumps and tanks are built.

    I did disassemble a condenste filter after a years worth of 199 Munchkin discharge. I used a 2 foot piece of 3" PVC to build the tank. As far as I could tell not much loss of chips, but they were very dirty and brown from the discharge.

    I've measured the ph discharge around 4.

    I'm not sure a "home made" neutralizer would pass code. Then again I wonder how many condensing boilers or furnaces actually have one installed?

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
    When the chips are down....

    The neutralizer I put in at my Susan's for her Vitodens is made from a 3" diameter PVC drum trap with 1.25" inlet and outlet (sink sized). It holds maybe a pound of chips. So far there is no sign of mass loss, just a softening of hard edges. The pH goes in about 4.0 and comes out about 8.0 which is pretty darn good.

    The Vito has been running since early November and on the first night (low 30's outside) filled a 5-gallon bucket I had there temporarily. Assuming it did that much each 24 hours, I would say I have run over 850 gallons of condensate through it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown


    Very good, thanks for the info!
  • Uni R_2
    Uni R_2 Member Posts: 589
    The other side of neutralizing...

    Can the pH get too high?

    I ended up rigging a neutralizer that has about 15 pounds of crushed marble in it. What happens now that heating season is coming to a close and the amount of condensate will be very small indeed? Will that water come out highly alkaline? If so, would that water be harmful to the plumbing?

    (kudos on the puns Brad)
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • Marty_9
    Marty_9 Member Posts: 30


    > Very good, thanks for the info!



    Carrier and Nordyne-and probably all the others,too-offer an acessory neutralizer kit for $30 wholesale or so.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 77
    The Acid test....

    Remember my super duper super condensing T-50 wall hung boiler with the copper GFX heat exchanger attached to the flue exhaust, that was connected to the incoming water to the DHW system (Whew)? I finally took it down a few months ago and inspected the inside of the HXer for acid etching from the condensate, and much to my suprise, there was very little evidence of errosion of the parent copper material.

    I would have expected to see something akin to the grand canyon running the length of the horizontal HXer where the condensate rolled out and along the bottom of it. But much to my suprise, there was little if any discernable damage.

    Also, FWIW, in my condensate receiver bucket, I toss all kinds of different pieces of various metal pipes in there just to see what happens, and the copper, although extremely clean, appears to be holding up rather well. The steel stuff, on the other hand, looks pretty rough.

    Makes me think that maybe instead of applying the GFX to the shower drain as I had planned on doing up at XanaX Ranch, that maybe I'd be better off appling it to the modcon's exhaust vent...

    One of them thar things that'll make ya step back and say "hmmmmm..."

    ME
  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    Kiryas Joel

    I worked there once many moons ago doing a sewer treatment plant.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Uni,

    I don`t think you have to worry about over neutralizing it, but 15lbs is a lot. The amount of marble chips dissolved is proportional to the acidity entering into-it, in turn the PH is raised by the quantity of marble the condensate has to pass through. A larger one may last longer, but plug with other impurities passed along with the condensate. I would suggest starting out(like Brad), with about 1LB. of marble then just keep checking it. Trial & error I know, but after a few tests you`ll get on to the frequency.

    Dave
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