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Vitodens 100
Mark Day
Member Posts: 2
I just received my first brochure and price list for the new Vitodens 100. I have only had a moment to look through it. My rep tells me that they hope to be able to ship the first week of May. I will be attending an information session next Monday and hope to find out more. It looks like two sizes available so far, an 8-24 and 8-30.
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Comments
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No variable-speed circulator but the same HX/burner as the Vitodens 200, correct?0 -
Cost
Without throwing numbers, will it compete on a price level with some of the more competative Mod/Cons?0 -
The HX looks the same, 316 Ti SS Inox Radial, but the burner looks a little different "Stainless steel cylinder burner" as opposed to the Matrix.
Many venting options, coax, 1 pipe, 2 pipe.
Canadian pricing looks very aggressive.
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sizes
Finally!
If only there was a 4-12.0 -
YES
but limited right nw on BTU
Coolest of cool, new adaptrers for bothe Vitodens series to gp to CPVC fresh air and and flue!0 -
And controls?
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Eager to see it
I hope Buderus and Burnham follow suit. Mad Dog
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Matt, it's Viessmann following them instead
They're selling a wallhung that is xx% cheaper than the Vitodens 200 so it can compete with the boilers you mentioned.
That was the first post of yours without even a single exclamation mark!!!!! ;-)0 -
Uni R
I have to disagree.
There are exclamation marks in Matt's post. Look at the name!!!
Mark H
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But body of a post sounds silly...
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Read the fine print
On the CPVC and approvals. We have the local wholesalers looking into the pricing and availability of the "listed venting" CPVC. I am betting it will cost about the same as SS venting.
Marc0 -
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Nope
W ehave been stocking the CPVC here for a long time to vent other boilers (Lochinvar). You are right that the CPVC venting material is around 10% less then the cost of the SS.
Differences are that it will install faster (easier to cut to exact length) and the cost of plastic will be more stable the the cost of metals.
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I'll buy that, but I am still hoping the others
come out with smaller mod-cons. Exclamation points: Are you proud of me? Mad Dog0 -
Atta Boy
Matty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scott
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What I have been told
The pricing is VERY competitive. The burner is a cylinderical burner. The control will be on board.
There will be a TT on boiler. Threading to be NPT (no more hemp). Only one outlet and one inlet. May be piped in Pri/Sec, or with LLH, or as say a Munchie piping. No circs included. And out here in Vancouver, there is, as of now, no classes planned, as my rep stated, it is a very basic boiler, though it sounds like it will still be ASMEED above 94%.
Leo G0 -
Exclamation points !
!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. !!!!!!!!!!, !!!!!!!!.
!!!!!!!0 -
ODR?
I'd be curious about the functionality of the control. I'm kind of worried that it'll be about as simple as they come. The true grace from mod cons in my opinions comes in controls.
A boiler can be way oversized, piped with very low mass HWBB, yet still provide water at an optimal and even comfort level when it can condense harmlessly when it's no so cold out and have enough sophistication to smoothen out the delivery of heat through modulation of its firing rate and firing intervals.
What impact on comfort will there be in those previous situations if you are using a simple controller? That would be my biggest concern if I were recommending and installing these. That or automatically figure a tn4 or a better Viessmann controller as an add on.
I'd rather have seen the 300s come to North America, ESPECIALLY in the smaller sizes. Personally, I'm surprised because I've always viewed Viessmann as a company built on its engineering, but this really is purely a marketing move. I'm sounding like someone else now.
When you think about the material that goes into any M-C boiler, there isn't that much. Less than 200 pounds. Start pricing it by the pound and factor all the labor dollars for conversion (I mean forging, sheetmetal, plastic extrusion -- assembly line stuff - not installation). I'll bet the margin on most M-C boilers is outstanding. This gives the manufacturers the goodies to pass back to their better installers who move more units. The goodies that I know of are quite outstanding.
Viessmann would have sold many of the smaller 300s. Many, just by the Pros here! The 300s would be better for the environment, customer savings and provide better customer comfort.
The price on all of these puppies will fall or at least fall in comparison to traditional boilers. How much did a 23" color TV in a big wood cabinet cost in 1969? And what fraction was that of a new car or even a home then? Given the fact that we are now probably paying way more than we should as end consumers for these units themselves compared to say a cast iron boiler, the manufacturers shouldn't yet be trying to cheapen the feature set - yet. Us end customers are still paying a huge premium for these, don't deny us the benefits. Especially, if you're trying to be seen as the top tier solution that is no compromise because this boiler has certainly been compromised to make a certain price point.0 -
vitodens
I saw this boiler at Warwick Thursday night. Yes the controlls are simplistic it modulates but does not have a WR feature. However you can add a simple small Tekmar or whatever you want.
The 200 has been our gas boiler of choice in the replacement market the last few years. In fact other than steam and a few special circumstances
we sell no cast iron gas boilers. I have sold the Triangle Tube as well in places where i can not vent the 200 because the Triangle is also stainless and i will NEVER sell an aluminum boiler.
The 200 is amazing but there have been several times when we are putting it on simple hydro air or baseboard systems. The 200 has capabilities such as running a mixing valve,and lots of other programming options that such houses,and most home owners never take advantage of.
I think the 100 Will be a great addition for the replacement market you get more venting options and still get modulation and 95% eff in a more cost effective package with Viesmann quality.Also it is a true BOILER not a "heating device" and rated as such.
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Vito 100
Had a chance this week at a trade show to talk to the viessmanns people and see what the changes were made, yes this boiler has a simple control and will still modulate plus it can handle a domestic load at 176F which is slightly higher than the 200 at 167 they realize that the other storage indirect may be used with this boiler and have set it up accordingly, still viessmanns tanks have a larger coil and can produce faster at lower water temps,
the boiler has a cylinder type burner and they have added a refractory to accommodate the use of this burner but it still has the great HX that we all love and this is a great boiler at a super price to allow us to use them for our smaller homes , without sacrificing the quality of the boiler
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The specs are up...
http://www.viessmann.ca/web/canada/ca_publish.nsf/Content/Vitodens100_ca_english
Pros: Vents with coax, SS, or CPVC (abs or pvc can also be used for the intake). It can also be piped in 2", 3" or 4" material. Much smaller physically than the 200 - 3.4 cubic feet box vs a 6.5 cubic feet. Can be hooked up to a simple t-stat or 3rd party controller. 95.1% AFUE and has a limited lifetime warranty (not sure of the details of it).
Cons: Requires a 3rd party controller for domestic. Boiler needs a Taco 010 or 15-58 on speed 3. S & R are 3/4" connections. 5000' rating instead of 10000' like V200.
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The literature says the surface area of the HX is actually larger than the 200 so either that's a typo or they do not share the same HX. It also allows the use of three different sizes of coax. It's collars are 60/100 (4" coax) but it can also use 80/125 (5¼" coax) like the V200 or even 100/150 (6" coax) if you need to vent longer. Vent maximums are 79' in either SS or CPVC.0 -
From what I have garnered
this boiler is specific to the North American market. It seems to me, to be Viessmanns way of recognizing the vast difference in our markets compared to Europes. From a marketing position, I think that it is well thought out. By going after the "majority" of the residential market, it can only help with name and brand recognition.
Odr for sure will be able to be used, and of course with a TT on the boiler itself, anyones IDHWT will be able to be used succesfully.
To me, it sounds like a win/win situation for the installers and the customers!
Leo G0 -
Made for the other markets
The Vitodens 100 was on dispaly at the ISH in 2005, it had been produced for the UK market. In the UK they had past a law that all boilers have to be changed to condensing only by, I think it was 2010? That is a lot of boilers to be change out! Now I heard they did the same thing in Poland. If it wasn't for that law, we would not have the 100. That's why there is no LP version. They could sell more boilers in the UK and Poland in one year then North America would sell in 10! So, no they will not make a boiler just for North America. We have our work cut out for us to turn this country around!
Ted
Vi rep.0 -
Made for the other markets is right....
"If it wasn't for that (UK) law, we would not have the 100."
I'm not sure that I'd agree that the Vitodens 100 was designed strictly because of the UK law. That law went into affect for any gas fired installs "booked" April 1, 2005 or later (and as of this year, oil boilers must also be of a condensing design).
I'm not sure when the law was actually passed by legislation so it's difficult to know how much lead time the manufacturers had. Viessmann must have started working on this boiler design long before that law was even being tabled in the House, because I would seriously doubt that Viessmann knew about a law 6 or 7 years in advance of when it became into effect and became law.
I say 6 or 7 years because the Vitodens 100 dates back to 2000, so the original marketing and engineering decisions would most likely have been made at least a year or more prior to that.
This model first hit the market in 2000. From 2000 to 2003 it had a cast Aluminium-Sil heat exchanger. It was redesigned in 2004 to use a SS HX. I'm not sure if the design has changed much between what Europe got in 2004 and what North America got in 2007.
(in Poland, Viessmann still shows the Vitopend 100 model which is wall-hung and modulating but not condensing - UK used to sell this model as well as a Vitopend 200)0 -
Had the luxury to stop by.....
Viessmann in Warwick RI today, since it is down the street from my house and actually look at an operational VitoDen 100 in the upstairs show room. I tell you it is real basic set point control, thats it. A TT connection for heat, and an ST connection for domestic hot water that overides the set point and heats up to 178 dgrees. The burner modulates on return water temperature. It is very small and compact.It runs just as quiet as the Vitoden 200, if not quieter. The venting options are unlimited.The price is very good on it.I would personally use the low loss header set up for domestic heating, and use the Taco I series mixing valves, taco circulators, taco controls with out door resets for my low water temps in order to gain the most out of the boiler I can get. Again, I see this boiler as giving you the bare bones minimum, but providing the maximum quality and efficiency that a Viessman product can offer you with out all the bells and whistles. What I would really like to see in this country is the condensing Vitola oil boiler........only if those darn oil companies can all get there refined heating oil on thge same page with the sulfer content.
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