Big old steam boilers...

FRANK_24

............."HUGE MONSTER BOILER" those are in the 150 H.P. boilers. You are talking about 1 gallon /per/hour now. Forget the boiler feed tank, get a real heat loss talk to your wholesaler rep.,they usually are helpfull. AND...follow all installation instructions. [Personally] my shop has installed too many to count Peerless WVB & ECT series boilers w/ Riello burners. Best bang for the buck.

Unknown

Of the formerly coal fired variety. Assuming the final piping is correct will removing a huge monster boiler and replacing it with a much smaller mass boiler affect the overall performance of it's system? Would it be a better choice to leave the old one there and install a newer gas fired burner? I ask this because I am aware of one situation where replacement has resulted in poor system performance. After all that has been done (by others, not me) to try and make it operate like it did before the change out MY assumption is that the system was happier with all that thermal mass the old boiler had to offer. The new boiler seems to cool off to cold iron quickly between cycles and there's a pretty good lag on warming back up to steaming once it calls again so the heated area continues to drop temp while this takes place. Once it DOES come up to pressure there is a lag over that point which then causes the area to OVER heat. I've changed and balanced all vents a couple times, pipes are pitched correctly. I did not do the change out and the only service/troubleshooting I have done is the vents. There ARE radiator covers but they have been there since before the changeout and were never a problem before.

FRANK_24

BIG OLE LADIES

If ya got something that is that old, it's time for a change. Did ya ever look into the fire boxes and size up the flue passages of those beasts? You are throwing up a heck of a lot of unused heat up the chimney. If for nothing else the boilers should be replaced for that reason. What about the burner? Depending on the size, I like Carlin, then IC's for the larger sizes. Do a heat loss and take a look at the heating surface of the oldy. Don't worry about the money end of it. Price it right, sell it right, then do it right. Maybe ya want to install a pair of boilers and lead/lag 'em. Lots of ways to go, do what the budget allows.

Unknown

Thanks for your reply Frankie, I understand what you're saying 100%. My concern is whether removing all that mass and replacing it with a much smaller boiler will have a detrimental effect on the performance of the system as described with what seems to be a lag problem on a similar job(not mine).

Let's ask it this way...

Assuming you have done the job correctly, has anyone out there encountered system performance problems after reducing the size of the boiler (and water volume) when replacing a big ol' steamer like that?

In the case I cite it appears to be a factor of the time it takes for the new / smaller boiler to go from cold iron to making steam upon call for heat in the heated area. By the time the boiler gets up to operating temp the heated area ambient has dropped lower than set point. Once it satisfies the T'stat the residual heat built up in the system then overheats the space. My THEORY is that the older, much larger boiler with many more gallons of water never reached cold iron between cycles and therefore had a head start on the next heating cycle. Again, just a semi educated guess. I'm looking for a few more educated guesses if they're out there.

In regards to the existing changeout that doesn't want to work right I have been considering putting it on reset to alleviate the problem. Any thoughts on that idea?

FRANK_24

WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT....

....is standby losses. Important yes, but in a properly installed system [and that means vents, returns, and near boiler piping] you should push up steam much faster. Todays boilers are made to do that. Now you have to contend with the condensate, faster, & more of it. Think about a boiler feed tank. But wait, what size are we talking about? How big is this job? That means a lot in choosing the equipment. You mentioned t'stat, something tells me that these boilers aren't that big. A modulating burner w/ heat timer product may or may not work. Sizes please,.

Unknown

Both are in maybe 1000/1200 sq ft houses. The one that/s done is one floor of a 3 family, the other is a small two story house. So yes, they are small. Well the old steamer ain't so small but the house it's in is.

I'll have to get back to these locations to gather the rest of the info you ask for. All the vents on the changeout that doesn't work right have been changed and balanced twice now. The customer feels there has been no improvement. I'm going off the net for the evening but I'll be back around tomorrow.

My main concern is the probable change out of the old one in the two story. It's a good friend and I don't want him to end up hating me because he doesn't like the way it works when I'm done. Was it Dan that had something to say somewhere about never working for friends.

Unknown

> ............."HUGE MONSTER BOILER" those are in

> the 150 H.P. boilers. You are talking about 1

> gallon /per/hour now. Forget the boiler feed

> tank, get a real heat loss talk to your

> wholesaler rep.,they usually are helpfull.

> AND...follow all installation instructions.

> [Personally] my shop has installed too many to

> count Peerless WVB & ECT series boilers w/ Riello

> burners. Best bang for the buck.



Thanks again, I'll get on it!

Unknown

Thanks again, I'll get on it!

RonWHC

If the iron

is getting cold between cycles, boiler mass probably has little to do w/ the problem. Are the steam mains insulated? If not -insulate them. Is the stat heat anticipator or cycle setting correct? Check it. If oil: is there a barometric in the flue pipe to reduce heat loss up the stack? If not, install one & have the over fire draft set properly.

Lower mass steam boilers are here to stay. Just like voice mail, we have to work around them.