Black pipe @ boiler

Jimbo_5

Can someone kindly tell me why it is "better" to run near-boiler piping in black rather than copper? I would not thin it really makes a difference. If anything, the black pipe will rust-up, where as the copper will not.

Secondly, is there any reason for using cushion clamps on copper tubing rather than kindorf/B-line clamps?

Curious . . .

Lunatic Fringe

Copper can damaged a cast iron boiler

b/c it expands at a very different rate than iron and can pull the sections apart over time.

Steamhead (in transit)

Jimmy, is this

a steam or hot-water boiler?

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ScottMP

WOW

I've never heard that one before. I would think if your near boiler piping was pulling the sections apart ... ITS TIME FOR A NEW BOILER CHOICE.

I DO agree that the copper and CI will expand at different rates and usually that means the copper will leak over time, especially if its Steam. Steam with copper is a NO/NO.

I like near boiler piping for our Hydronic jobs ( that words still not in the dictionary ) because of the expansion and the strenght. I've NEVER had a manifold rust so bad as to be a problem. I've seen leaks rust out but never surface rust.

Scott

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Brad White_9

Once you try black you never...

mind.

I personally like seeing iron connected to an iron boiler. Notions of rust mean you have other problems inside or out. Correct them.

The reason I like iron (particularly speed headers and the like) is that they are substantial and allow circulator support, neat and clean. The circulators make a nice transition to the copper side of life.

Copper can be made neat and clean but something about good painted black pipe, even if it will be insulated. JMHO.

Couderay

Copper VS. Steel

On a hot water boiler,the choice is yours. On steam,I would stay with steel.Redone my mothers near boiler piping two summers ago, was installed in type m in 1962 and piping was perfect. Reason for change was to go to a primary/secondary type set up. Boiler is a cast iron weil-mclain.

Anna Conda

On a steam boiler, it makes a big difference. Steam is, of course, much hotter than hot water, and is of course a gas. Copper has a greater co-efficient of expansion than iron; when used with steam, copper expands and contracts much more than iron, which the soldered joints can't absorb as well as threaded joints, so leaks are more likely to develop. Copper also has greater heat transfer than iron, so it sheds the steam's heat quickly. That means the steam is likely to start condensing before it even hits the radiators, causing water hammer. And as already mentioned, copper is dielectric, and most of the radiator piping will be iron, so galvanic corrosion could become an issue. Many residential steam boiler problems have been traced back to copper near-boiler piping, and eliminated by changing the copper out for iron.

bill nye_3

I do it

I do it in black because.... I hang the expansion tank from the air scoop and if it ever goes bad and fills up w/water it gets heavy.

Jimbo_5

Thanks

I was refering to a hot water boiler. In particular, I was noticing that some folks were pushing for black piping on the p/s loops for a mod/com, such as an Weil-Mc Ultra. Here I did not see the need, considering there is no cast iron, right? My curiousity has gotten the better of me.

hr

Copper works fine

most CI boilers include a couple black iron fittings and nipples to mount the drain cock and gauge etc. Copper right into that connection.

You have no doubt seen dozen's of cast boilers with copper press fittings on this site

The system or the boiler doesn't know, or care where the transition is made.

hot rod

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Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

an old timer told me

that a piece of black will act as a sacrifical element like an anode rod. he said they had a job with many houses and real bad water. They noticed the expansion tanks lasted a lot longer on the boilers with iorn piping, it makes sense, you said yourself it will rust. I like it for supporting the tank and primary pump. Bob Gagnon

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Jimbo_5

Thank you for the imput

So, when my new boiler is installed, perhaps i should run the loops in black pipe? I presently have a 50-year old Weil-Mclain, and everything is black pipe. But since there is no p/s loops, I though copper would be the easiest way to run the new piping. It's just soo much easier when working in close spaces and even shorter nipples. But I had to ask.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

I don't know if you need that much black pipe

but you will be O.K. either way. Are you pumping away, that is more important. Bob Gagnon

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Mad Dog!!!!!!!!

As good an explanation as I ever heard...snake

Mad Dog