Mod/Con Plumbing Strategies

Dave_4

Well, I won't be putting in gypcrete.
The area above my garage (loft) will use either staple up, radiant panels, or the in-groove approach. Have not decided.

The area adjacent to existing garage (workshop) will be PEX-in-slab.

I'm not even committed to extending the radiant to the loft. If it proves too costly or complicated, I'll go with some solution other than radiant for that area.

Dave_4

Radiant Plumbing with Taco X-Pump Block

I am a homeowner about to build a workshop addition to my garage, 600 ft2 slab on grade, heat requirement about 10k btu. An area over the garage, 720 ft2, ~15K btu, will be finished later this year. In slab radiant for the workshop, staple-up radiant for the garage loft. DHW for 2 sinks and a shower. I want a direct-vent (or ventless electric) system that is as simple as possible but allows some room for expansion (such as into a small greenhouse). Quality (within reason) is more important to me than getting the cheapest product.

I've considered several heat sources including tank/tankless propane water heaters, electric (Seisco) WH, or small mod/con boiler like the Munchkin T50
(or WeilMcLain Ultra 80, or Triangle Tube Prestige, or ...)

All seem to have pros & cons but the plumbing & HVAC pros seem to favor the mod/cons. One thing I don't like about these is that they require a wall full of complex piping that takes off from a primary loop, and is custom built by the contractor, making cost & quality comparisons harder for me.

Would a product like the Taco X-pump Block eliminate a lot that? I know they are nearly a thousand bucks, but if I can solicit 3 bids on exactly the same system (Munchkin T50 + 40 g Reverse Indirect + Taco XPB + etc.) then I can minimize the "etc." part, compare apples to apples among the bids, and hopefully wind up with a simpler plumbing system.

John_82

buderus gb142

The gb142 buderus wall hung comes w/ the propane orafice and a small compact boiler loop manifold that hangs underneath the boiler. It make things alot neater and less clumbsy. All you'd need after the boiler is a system pump (or pumps if zoning by pump)zone valves, t-stat, etc. Seriously, check it out, it may be a bit more expensive, but it is easier to install & is a quality boiler. Even comes w/ outdoor reset and domestic priority.

Ted_5

Vitodens 100

should be out for sale mid April! Wait until then to get a price. You would not need any mixing if it is all radiant.

Ted

Vi. rep

Glenn Sossin_2

Mixing ?

Not sure about that. He said he was going to use staple up for the 2nd floor. Whats the attachement method and floor covering? The we would know if he can just program a single temp for heating.

The Prestige 110 has a low head through its exchanger so it doesn't need "fancy piping". In fact the circulator for the heating side is built into the unit itself.

Sounds like an apartment up top??

J.C.A._3

I agree Glenn

He's going to be looking for 2 different temps, and including a high ramp up for H.W.. 1 Xblock ain't gonna cut it...unless you mix down from the exit.(more parts!)

Stick with primary/secondary..as suggested by instructions... and use , say a couple of i-radiant 3 ways to get individual mixes on the radiant loops and let the boiler ride the outdoor reset/ramp up for domestic.

I bet the cost will save you enough to buy a proper boiler!

Of course...there's more than one way to skin a cat,(sorry PETA)and this would be one of my suggestions. Chris

Dave_4

I won't necessarily use staple up, if something else makes more sense
(like radiant panels).

J.C.A._3

Dave,

In my last post I said X block...but meant RMB.Sorry.

If you're going to keep 1 type of floor on the upper level,across the whole space, Warm Board,Climate Panel Or any of the "grooved board products" would be a good choice. The big difference is at what temp. does it need to run compared to a wet(cement)system...that will be the determining factor.

Generally, a wet system will work at a far lower temp. than almost anything above the floor,excetp a gypcrete or maybe a tile floor.(generally) They are both probably not what will cover the entire space...? Chris

ALH_4

Dry Systems

If you use extruded aluminum heat transfer plates for the upper level instead of bare staple-up, you can run both floors at the same fluid temperature. It may not be the ideal setup, but if you use panel radiators upstairs that use higher temperatures than the slab (maybe 140°F @ design), you could use a themostatic mixing valve on the slab supply to set a maximum temperature that could be sent to that slab.

Glenn Sossin_2

Covering

What is this 2nd floor for ? A retreat for you to clean up and hang out away from the wife & kids, or an apartment ? The floor covering(coverings) will play a significant factor in what product choice and piping methods would be,