radiant heat and its affect on hardwood floor

Debbie_3

I am in Denver, dry climate, and in the process of installing radiant heat in my remodel. On 1800 sf I am pouring a new slab with radiant tube in it, 3/4 CDX on that and 3/4 hardwood on that. My kitchen area is subfloor and I only have 1-1/2" to work with. I am contemplating using Wirsbo track board for my first 3/4" and then my hardwood floor attached to this. I am putting in Santos Mahoghony. I have been receiving mixed views as to the affects radiant will have on my hardwood floor. Crowning, separating, etc. Different opinions from the radiant people and the hardwood people. Any insight????? Anybody with experience with this I would love to hear from.

rb_6

be sure to download the free Wood Handbook published by U.S. Dep

copy and past this link into your browser:

http://www.healthyheating.com/Page 55/hardwood1.htm

Page three has the link for the handbook.
Many other public domain documents from the likes of Dr. Joseph Lstiburek, P.Eng., Building Science Corporation, Washington State University Civil and Environmental Engineering Department, Canadian Wood Council, Hardwood Manufacturers Association etc.

Be sure to make note of the requirements for stable year round humidity control regardless of HVAC system.

...and please advise those giving conflicting advice that exactly 100% of all hardwood floor complaints in homes heated with forced air did not have radiant heating.

Living in bone dry Calgary with wonderful radiant heated hardwood floors.
rb

kevin coppinger_4

Deb..

that is s good advice from a man who knows his stuff....kpc

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Kitchen floor, right?

Some things to look out for.

1) ENSURE that the floor itself can handle the heating load with no more than 85F surface temperature at the design load. Kitchens often have a relative deficit of floor area (your heat emitter) so it's not particularly uncommon for kitchens to require some other form of heat--ceilings, walls, panel radiators, iron radiators, etc.

2) Be aware that wood floors in kitchens are nothing but a fad. The wealthy would have used stone or tile until the first practical, inexpensive (linoleum) floors were intruduced for the "common" people and such was IMMEDIATELY adopted by anyone who could possibly afford--and if they could afford an indoor bath they CERTAINLY didn't have bare wood floors in the kitchen or bath!!!

I don't care what type of wood or what type of modern "indestructible" coating is used on the wear surface--natural wood strip flooring MOVES with the seasons--gaps open and close with nature! If you actually use your kitchen for cooking (and likely eating) they NATURALLY get dirty and/or wet. If they don't get wet from spills they'll get wet from "wet" cleaning. A good portion of the water WILL go into the cracks--even if they appear "closed" in the summer. The water soaks into the wood expanding it further and causing compression--if the cracks appear "closed" the wood will STILL expand! THAT'S WHAT CAUSES THE CROWNING AND SEPARATION!!!!

If the kitchen is used for frequent eating I won't even mention the wear of chair legs. Of course you could use a rug, but then you'll just reduce the heat output of the floor in an area that probably needs all it can get anyway!

I'm not trying to chide you. I just want you to be satisfied in the long term.

Gordy

Wood floors in kitchen

Mike is 100% correct on his advice. One other thing if you do decide on the wood floors the narrower the dimension of the pieces the more dimensionaly stable it will be.

You will see more movement with wide plank floors than with 3" wide floors. One other thing I would worry about is the CDX underlayment. I think that might cause some buckling with extreme moisture.


Gordy

hr

For kitchens

look at the engineered wood products.

I recall a Wilsonart display at the Homebuilders show a few years back. They had a bath tub overflowing onto one of their flooring products for the week of the show! Plenty rugged for bath and kitchen use if you can find the "look" you want.

Humidity control is very important. In my area all homes have a forced HVAC system of some sort in addition to the radiant I install. Many of the name brands, Carrier, Lennox, York, etc have humidistats that will run the HVAC at very low speeds, when needed, to keep the humidity correct. They can add or remove humidity as needed. Also air exchange capability. This helps during high moisture conditions like cooking or showering.

I also see humidistats being used in bathrooms to eliminate moisture after showering. With todays tight homes this is extremely important.

hot rod

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Unknown

All I've read here is true. I JUST put strap up radiant under a kitchen and foyer floor that was SUPPOSED to be ceramic tile. At the start of the job I told the builder and homeowner I would NOT heat under wood or carpet. Once the tube was in the homeowner insisted, against strong recommendations, on putting down wide mahogany boards. One day I walked in and there were the heated wooden floors, I've hardly even MET the floor guy, let alone discuss the job before hand. No water to get the humidifiers going with for maybe another two weeks. Yep, they move. When I walked in that day the water temp had been at 120* I have it at 107* right now. It's actually designed for "warming" as opposed to "heating". Even with the humidity up now there are still plenty of gaps.

Dave Larsen_2

radiant not the cause....

The radiant heat didin't cause gaps in the flooring. I would be willing to bet the real culprit is your flooring installer's impatience. If that flooring was allowed to acclimate it's humidity level to that of the house before installation there would have been no gaps. that flooring should be allowed to sit for at least a week inthe house before installation. Sunshine can heat up a floor above the temps that your tubing can.

Debbie_3

thank you

I just want to thank everyone for their input. It has really helped with my research.