Opinions Wanted... (ME)

Mad Dog!!!!!!!!

That boiler is usually sitting atop all posts at the wall. Also, always in P & M Mag...you know...muscle boy with his hands poised confidently on hips...standing next to the unit. Mad Dog

[Deleted User]

Any experience with...

ECR Internationals mod-con boilers? The UB95M-200 either in a Utica suit or Dunkirk suit?

Is their block really made on American soil? Blower looks to be an EBM and the control looks just like everyone elses. I missed mentioning them in a recent article I wrote on boiler efficiency.

Personally, I have never even heard of them. I think I may have seen some advertising on them (surely...), but none of their local representatives have ever contacted me regarding their use. I am not a big fan of aluminum block boilers, regardless of where they are made...but thought I would check with you all and get some reaction.

Come to think of it, I can't recall anyone here ever mentioning them... Is this Americas Best Kept Secret???

Anyone?

ME

hr

if you get your hands on one

pass it around. I too would like to dig deep into it.

I see Burnham is pushing their aluminum block mod cons with rebate offers currently. It looks like the Crown and a few others aluminum block.

I think the challange with aluminum blocks are any threaded connection. Seems the Ultra struggled with this on the bore holes and piping connections. Different expansion rates of the metals, especially when they kick to high temperatures.

Makes me wonder if a gasketed connection would be better then threads. Especially straight threads!

We Americans are perfectly capable of tight, leak free joints with NPT. Enough of the straight "hemped" fittings. We get it already. It's old world thinking at it's worst

Thick aluminum or thin stainless alloys for boiler Hxers? Or composites.

It will be interesting to look at this 5, 10, 15 years from now.

I suspect water quality will be a HUGE "decider" and warranties will be made and broken over the look inside.

I see a few have beefed up the treatment requirements in the installation manual.

Still none include a method, and product mention, for a flush and clean As, or more important, then the final treatment, I feel.

ECR does claim that their boiler qualifies for the current tax rebate? What's the difference in that regard?

hot rod

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Mad Dog!!!!!!!!

Ain't known no one that dun put 'em in......BUT

Haven't heard anything bad 'bout ';emm neither/nor Mad Dog

Tombig_2

ECR Dunkirk

I haven't installed one but spent some time at the AHR show poring over it. It's got a beefy looking block that's designed and cast right here in the USA. Not so dainty looking like the euro-blocks. I believe it's NPT right to the block and it IS aluminum. It has larger waterways so they say you don't need to pipe P/S. I think it uses the same Honeywell controller as the Ultra, Burnham, and Prestige. All this info is Monday morning memory. I think they got a 95% rating so it qualifies for the US tax credit unlike most at 93 or 94%. I was impressed and thought it would be a great boiler for the right application.

There was a thread about them a while back.

Tom G

schiller

we put a Q95 (dunkrik) in in Jan. this year. we had been installing the kinght but the suppply house was back ordered 2 to 3 weeks for the size we needed. the Q95 is only made in one size 200m the price point better than the knight in that size only. The piping instruction for the manufacture did not require primary/secondary, although we repiped primary/ secondary anyway. the supply, return venting and condesate all connect near the rear of the boiler which made it a bit difficult. we got the heat on in one day and went back the next day to button up a few details. I spoke to the home owner last week and said her bills were cut in half.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

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Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

I REALLY like it.

I put one in a couple of months ago and I'm putting another one in tomorrow. It's top quality, easy setup, pre-wired with outdoor reset, and at 95% AFUE this boiler is a good reason to buy American. I have been using Utica for years, they have real good service and they know how the make a trouble free boiler. I can't seem to post pictures, but I sent you an e-mail Mark. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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clammy

utica

ME i had help a old timer install one about 6 to 8 months ago ,the unit seemed ok but this particular model was not modulating and i also did not like the condensate outlet to low and if i remenber it's on the back of the unit also i believe the first 5 ft of pipe out of the unit must be cpvc sch 80 also they state that the discharge vertical piece must be 5 ft at a min before a 90 which leave this unit to not be installed in low cieling basements ,also had some promblems with the burner and they sent out a rep with a new burner tube and even though manafucture specs for the intale and exhaust where followed the concentric termqtion kit was very noise so much the neigebors had compalined (intake and exhaust where about 15 ft long each)I did not spec or size the system which the boiler was oversized a bit ,i did however pipe it primary secondary and piped the idw right off the boiler before it pump ,the home was mostly baseboard with a radiant in garage and some onixion staple up fopr 3 baths all in all it's a allright boiler but i would have perferred a munchkin with vision 1 peace and good luck clammy

Robert O'Brien

I

Haven't installed any but I have serviced a couple for rough light-off complaints,set them up with analyzer and they purr.These were never setup properly by the installing plumbers.I like them.

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Troy_3

ECR

Mark-they are cast in NY of all places even with our high taxes. The reason I haven't used one yet is that they didn't have a modulating burner. That, i think has changed. I know the people -they are stand up guys. i think their problem is their existing market has always been on the low end of the price point. Their customers are generally the inexpensive guys. I'm not critisizing, just saying I think that has been a problem going to market since they need a new set of customers.

[Deleted User]

The list...

I think they were the first company on the list, but not the only ones.

Buderus GB's are there, Burnhams "Freedom" line is there, Crowns Bimini is there, of course Dunkirk, Utica and ECR are there and all of the Viessmann Vitodens are there.

Difference between the highest and the lowest is .4% AFUE (95.4 versus 95.0)

Viessmann got theirs in with a simple paper change.

The fact that these manufacturers have their 95% AFUE certificate doesn't really impress me all that much because its only worth $150.00 worth of credit, which is probably exactly what it cost them from their accountant to go through all of the government red tape....

Wasn't the Monitor on the "list" at one point in time? Wonder what they did to get kicked off?? :-)

Now you know who's on the list...


ME

[Deleted User]

To be perfectly honest....

I do remember them touting their product a long time ago, but in thier presentation, they had a small submersible pump that pumped the condensate around the HXer to extract additional heat, and I thought to myself "Just another moving part to go bad.." and haven't given it another thought since then. Sounds like they've re-engineered the boiler as a whole since I last saw it.

And yes, I've seen theri adds on the top bar, but the moving part thing kept blocking my vision...

ME

[Deleted User]

Size DOES count...

The fact that they only have a one size fits all program is a blow against thier program in my book. Can't tell you how many mod-cons I've seen short cycling themselves to the grave because it was oversized. I know, add a buffer tank, but in most cases, space is a premium, and so is my labor and parts. If they REALLY want to take a chunk out of the NA market, they need to rethink their one size fits all marketing program. That, and get their product out in front of the up and coming student bodies (read donate some to the local community college that has hydronics courses.

To their credit, they have been around for a LONG time... http://www.ecrinternational.com/ecrinternational/about_us.asp

Evidently, it's an East Cost Game, cause I don't recall ever seeing them in teh Denver Colorado market.

ME

Steve Ebels_3

Hot Rod

I agree with the threaded fitting issue on the aluminum blocks and would be much more comfortable with a gasketed flange also. There's just too much difference in the expansion/contraction ratio between steel and aluminum for it to not present a problem over a 15-20 year life cycle IMHO. The other thing is the use of aluminum itself in a condensing application. Maybe I'm being paranoid about it but I think system water quality is going to have a huge bearing on the life of these HX's on the internal side as well as external corrosion caused by the condensate. I haven't had an opportunity to really grill a rep from one of these companies regarding these issues but I know that you have played around with more than a few. What's your opinion? Do I have cold feet over nothing?

hot_rod

Personally, Steve

I have not seen a failed or leaking aluminum block mod con.

I have heard some wild stories regarding leaking plug replacement on one brand. Easier said than done

I do have some actual real life stories about failed stainless coil HXers. That "misting" issue I wrote about several months ago.

The leakers all went back to the rep, maybe the factory. I'd love to hear the reasons they failed.

With about 5 years under our belt we should start getting data from the field on what fails.

The challange will be the forensic engineering to determine exact cause. Unless a contractor bites the bullet and sends a failed unit to a lab experienced with "un-engineering" we just get the party line from the mans.

Reminds me of the copper tube boiler saga "It's not our fault, and you need a bigger pump" warranty denied.

Or am I truely the only one that has heard that line

For my part I will dial all mod cons in to factory spec on the fire side. Clean and treat them on the water side. And a lucky rabbits foot with every install.

hot rod

Al Corelli_2

I have one of those in my house, Mark.

Serial number 0004. Quantum Leap by Dunkirk.

Been working for eight heating seasons. No, it does not modulate, but it sure does condense.

Only one failure. The ignitor failed after 6 years. I'd call that Very reliable.

Open up every year to clean the fire side, but every year, I find NOTHING inside. Perfectly clean. Water side, judging from the color of the water through the pex for the radiant zones, is very good. No leaking valves, packings, or anything to make me think the water is bad.

I really wish electrical parts for these boilers would be more readily available. I spent many hours last week driving out to a wholesaler (Dellon) to get a board for a 90-200 that no one had in stock. If you sell the boilers, shouldn't you also carry the parts? My HTP and Peerless suppliers carry everything for the Munchies and Pinnacles. Why can't manufacturers stress this to the wholesalers and supply houses?
The main reason I don't install (mod/con) anything besides Munchies, is that they are the only ones I can get parts for.

Why should I install something that makes me look like an idiot? "You don't have the board for that in the truck?" As if all "the boards" were the same. How do you tell someone they will be without heat for a WEEK while parts are on order?



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Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

rebates, modulation and price

The UB95M-200 does modulate, 200 btu's max and 80 btu's min. that is a net IBR of 66,000 Btu's. At 95% AFUE, keyspan also offers rebates of $800 for the boiler and another $300 if you put in a storage tank for domestic hot water. 30" of cpvc comes attached to the boiler and you go pvc from there. And the cheap guy's won't be putting these boilers in, they are about 3 times the price of a standard boiler. Bob Gagnon

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