Munchkin, Knight, or Prestige????

Glenn Sossin_2

We had a customer who was a factory authorized field svc man who converted to the Prestige because he had difficulty getting parts. Have you had a similar issue?

waterboy

I am looking for information on the Munchkin, Knight, or Prestige. I am hoping for others input on which condensing boiler to install in my new home. I have been very involved with the Munchkin, and we just got through our first winter with the Knight. I also have access to the Prestige but have no install, service, or troubleshooting knowledge with the Prestige.

Please give me your praise, gripes, etc. about any of these boilers.

Thanks

Guy Woollard

Prestige

I completely understand wanting to stick with a product that you are familiar with, but I am also willing to offer any help that I can on our Prestige. One advantage that it has over the others is that you PROBABLY will not need to primary/secondary pipe it. The boiler holds considerably more water than the others and is therefore not as flow dependant.
If I can answer any specific questions, please let me know.

GW


Guy Woollard
N.E. Regional Sales Mgr
Triangle Tube Corp.

Uni R_2

My Prestige experience...

I have two gripes about the Prestige but plenty of praise.

The first gripe is that the return and domestic supply are both too close to the back of the boiler. The fittings end up being too close to the supporting wall to turn. They should be about an inch more out.

My second gripe is about the modulation range. In Europe, the ACV Presige Solo 32 (the 110 here) has an "advertised" modulation range rom 32KW down to 5.9KW (109.2 MBH - 20.1 MBH) or 5.4:1 as a ratio.

Here in North America on their web site, they say that "The Prestige has the capability to modulate the firing rate down to 25% of its rated input and is available in 3 sizes, a 110, 175 and 250." So they are saying it has the capability to do 4:1 modulation. When you read the specifications, the ratio becomes 110:30 or 3.67:1. The 25% statement could be interpretted a few different ways but none of the 3 models achieve a 4:1 ratio according to their respective specifications.

I've measured mine and it is in fact less than 3:1 and the only other person that I know who has clocked their 110's ratio, was also under 3:1. I have contacted Triangle-Tube about this, but like many firms in this industry, they're not too keen on communicating with home-owners that only buy a boiler once in a blue moon. (I'd really like to know what ratio some of you others are getting. Feel free to e-mail me if you have numbers.)

My two gripes aside, I really like it. It's silent from only a step or two away when operating, is stingy on both NG and electric (14 watts idle - 98 watts firing and pumping on medium - my monoflo requires medium), the built-in controller has integrated surge protection and works great either on ODR alone or using a t-stat. The controller also provides excellent run times without ever overshooting or affecting comfort. The boiler also has the flexibility to be piped direct or P/S depending on your needs (or even both if you want to do a P/S bypass).

I still have no clue about the reliability of these machines - mine's only 4 months old - so far no problems, but I think it takes about 5 years before you really know. I also have no idea if it needs to have the HX cleaned annually - I've heard conflicting reports, but most viewpoints say it doesn't.

So there it is - lots of praise and 2 small gripes... I actually figured the modulation would be a much bigger factor than it is - it was a huge issue when I was considering what to get - until something better and smaller hits the market, I wouldn't change my pick.

Wayco Wayne_2

I cab vouch

for the Prestige. I have a handful in the field and they have been troublefree. I have had Munchkins before that, and they have had some issues but I have gotten great support from the factory and they are running OK right now. I have one in my own house I had to take out of a customers house because of chronic problems. I took it out and replaced it and installed it in my house so I could find the problem. After intermittant problems I rebuilt it completely and it had been running troublefree for over a year. (Of course I go down in the basement and talk to it every morning to encourage it to keep up the good work.) I mount the Prestige on 2 x 4's to keep it off the wall a bit and give me room to get to the pipes. I also make the initial pipe connections before I hang it. I've heard good things about the support given the Knight, but have not yet had the opportunity to install one yet. WW

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Josh_10

I vouch for the prestige as well. We have about 10 of em out there and not one call back. Great controls too. Same as Weil McLain Ultra.

I agree on the Return and DHW supplies being too close to the back of the boiler. You always have to do a funky jog over to the DHW supply.

For the money I would challenge anyone to find a better value than the Prestige. I think many of you would agree with me there too.

Mark Hunt

Prestige


I agree Josh.

Uni R asked me to clock the consumption of the Prestige a while back. I will as soon as the utility gets their gas line issues worked out. BIG problem for the utility.

I agree that the piping from the unit could be changed for the better, but the Prestige has caused us NO problems. Neither has the Buderus GB.

Mark H

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Guy Woollard

news

Good news about the piping: Because of a contractor comment, the piping arrangement was actually changed. The indirect supply and the return are still in the back, but the supply is now about 6 inches forward.

As for the turndown ratio, I will have to look into it further. This is the first that I have heard of it, but then again, I am the new guy.

Guy


Guy Woollard
N.E. Regional Sales Mgr
Triangle Tube Corp.

Derrick Ellefson

Modulation

Guy, If you could bring that 110 down to 15,000 Btu of so like the NTI it would be a great. I've installed quite a few and also have alot of praise for them. It would help with short cycling with micro loads like small bathrooms and slab sensors and not having to add a buffer tank. Again great boiler have worked on them all and would have to say I like the prestige the best

Bob R

Prestiege

I'm a Viessmann guy. The only time I don't use a Viessmann is when I use a Triangle Tube Prestiege boiler.
I think the Prestiege is a quality boiler with a nice control and so far I've not had a problem with the 3 I've installed.
Definitely worth using.
Bob

Dave Stroman

Sounds like this Triangle tube boiler is a good one. I am a Trinity man, at least until now. I am considering changing to the Triangle. I have heard nothing but good things.

Dave in Denver

Josh_10

Compare the pressure drop of your trinity to a prestige. That 0010 you have to add to the trinity is pretty expensive. The Trinity comes with a pump, and you can use a pretty small pump for the indirect as well saving a ton of upfront $.

By the way I'm not a rep, I'm a contractor... I didn't get paid to say that!

Paul Rohrs_4

Knight

I haven't seen my rep for the Prestige and to my knowledge, they have no local distribution. Sounds like a good boiler though.

We have been swinging the Lochinvar Knight boiler as our big "radiant bat". I can't say enough good things about this boiler. Design, operation, and support from Lochinvar is top shelf. The pocket PC is an awesome tool that is also available from Lochinvar. It beams an infrared signal to the boiler and lets me download key information like modulation above 50%, below 50%, lockouts, and ignition attempts (to name a few). Fast information at your finger tips.

Regards,

PR

waterboy

Thanks for all the input. So far it is looking like the Prestige may be the winner. I work for a wholesaler designing hydronic systems, troubleshooting contractors systems, basically anything to do with hydronic heating.

Keep the input coming.

jwade55_5

Guy

Guy,

Shoot me an email.

Jay Wade

hr

Depends on what features

you feel are most important.


I think The Knight by far has the nicest control. Data logging, reset programs, boost feature, palm pilot interface as Paul mentioned. Full metal jacket, great factory support, and plenty of sizes.

I Like the Prestige for it's wall mounting feature, wide open HX, and copper connections. Better size selection and modulation rate would be nice. I have not opened one up yet to clean. i think you need to watch top clearences to be able to disassemble that HX?

I have been working with Munchkin Contender a bit. That model seems to have a lot of improvements over the earlier Munch. Nice quiet case. Better workmanship.



hot rod

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Perry_3

Guy.. You need a smaller model

I think you would have a substaintail market if you produced a model with a top firing rate of about 60,000 BTU/Hr.

I rejected using a Triangle Tube boiler for my house because it was way to large - and I looked seriously at it.

You would have had the order if you had a smaller boiler.

Perry

Wayco Wayne_2

Glad to hear

about the Contender. My class was supposed to get a look at it this Fall but something came up and the gig fell through. I would like to see the nice folks at HTP have a winner after all their trials with the first ones. WW

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Josh_10

I like the controls as well. It is the only residential Mod/Con that will allow direct drive with a 0-10VDC without an interface.

I think some of the other Mod/Con manufacturers should take a que from Lockinvar.

boilerpro_4

new stuff

I just saw the Freedom boiler and it was 95+ and it looked simple to work on but I do not have the history on it.

Couderay

Munchkin

Installed my munchkin by myself as a homeowner. Pipefitter by trade,and so far,so good.Had a few problems with F09 but has been a non issue this last year. This is the second full winter it has been running. I would definitly recommend HTP brand of products to anyone.

Glenn Sossin_2

Heatexchanger

Take a look at the heat exchanger design/material of the prestige as compared to the other two models. The Prestige is a vertical heat exchanger, self cleaning. The other is a helical coil, very thin, high head loss, prone to being air bound & creating hot spots.

Despite the issues brough up here, I think the Prestige is a better value all things considered.