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Critique wanted

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Comments

  • Rodney Summers
    Rodney Summers Member Posts: 748
    Mark

    The first thing I noticed that wasn't right (according to the code(s)) is the direct vent termination. I really can't tell from the pictures but speaking on the direct vent piping, are the pipes nearest to the meter, exhaust or intake? In either scenario this is wrong. If the pipes were intake, what do you think will happen when the diaphragm on that high pressure regulator fails. If the pipes were discharge/exhaust, the moisture entrapped within the flue gases could potentially freeze up the regulator.
    I also can't tell if the PRV is isolated with a valve before it connects to the system (sure will make an enjoyable evening of purging when that one goes). I also must agree with the poster below about the legal implications this could bring to your door step.

    Be careful!

    Document EVERYTHING!


    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Jerry_15
    Jerry_15 Member Posts: 379


    Don't go there Mark. You'll never get a sink washer approved for the rest of your working life. Let the lawyers do that. I would strongly suggest that you suggest, in writing, that they acquire the services of a mechanical engineer, and that you will gladly perform any work to written specifications. It is one thing to be called into court as a expert witness (you even get paid); quite another to be the defendant in a cross complaint, and that's where you're going. Bill your work to date simply and without judgement. Bow out gracefully while there's still time. Double good luck. I've been there.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,663
    Suzuki Reminds me ...

    of Ken Miata in The Karate Kid.....Install all the piping in a Zen manner, Grasshopper....Leave nothing behind...

    Rag Momma Rag

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  • Jerry_15
    Jerry_15 Member Posts: 379


    Amen O'Conner - this kind of thing can suck you in and ruin an otherwise good year. Don't do it. Do not talk to to the other contractors by phone. That's why God made fax machines, and in some cases, it is more blessed to receive. Good luck.
  • Jamie_6
    Jamie_6 Member Posts: 710


    Speechless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    boiler piping

    wow what a mess nothing straight extra wires on zone valve ect. the installers should lose thier liscence

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Jerry, Robert et al...

    Thank you for your friendly advice. I have been doing what I am doing for 1/3 of a century. I expose myself and my company on a DAILY basis with tings that can cause building to catch on fire, flood or kill and maim. The least of my fears has to do with the legal system. If I can withstand the drubbings and interrogations of Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co's legal team (and I did, and we won) I can surely stand my own with some small time attorney in Colorado.

    The GC and the developer are REAL close friends. This is the 10th flip from apartment house to condo they have done together. Not sure where the mechanical contractor fits in, and I really don't care at this point. In his words, "it's not my problem".

    As for the inspectors, I teach them on a regular basis, and they come to me with questions that they can't seem to find the answers to. Two of them intend to have us do their retirement homes . Our work is respected in the field by all AHJ's that we work with, and I trust them to do the right thing, unless it's a rookie mistake, which is permissible.

    As a recognized mechanical systems expert in Federal District court and the Colorado Judicial system, I am fully aware of the need for full and complete documentation.

    Trust me, I will not get sued for this job.

    As I told my students Thursday night, my only fear is that word could get out into the hydronic arena, that I am a hired gun. Such is not the case. I could make a good living persuing contractors on a daily basis, and have in fact been approached by numerous firms for exactly those services, and have turned them down. I have no intention of becoming a hired gun against contractors in the future either. If persued, I will fight back, with a vengence.

    I am also hired on a regular basis to design systems for mechanical engineers. And, having been directly involved in this field for 33 years, there are not many systems that I have not seen and worked on. And there is not a system that can not be fixed.

    Again, thank you for your concern...

    ME
  • Jerry_15
    Jerry_15 Member Posts: 379


    Sorry for preaching to the choir, but I have seen well meaning guys go down in flames in this situation. I've also done what you're doing under the same situations and come out ok, and helped to resolve the mess as well. You are obviously experienced enough to handle this, but I bet you would agree that it's not for the faint of heart. It's so much easier when you just put the damn thing in right and do a good job, and back up your work.
  • Larry F
    Larry F Member Posts: 25


    Looks like an al 800 or a 1000 to me. True a bunch more gas can be delivered through the meter but at the expense of considerable pressure drop. The most I recall was about 1200 cfh through an ac 250 at a location that had added a bunch more equipment without bothering to let the gas house in on it...the 1/4 ft hand was a blur. If that is an 800 or 1000, chances are that it can be downsized to a 425 and likely result in a lower base charge to the payee...could be another feather in yur cap if you can make room for one more.

    Larry
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,518
    The installing Contractors....................................

    Was that 3 Stooges Inc? Beasts!! Make 'em pay Mark. They showed you no respect by dismissing your bid EVEN after you had proved yourself. It's time to get paid. And people wonder why we charge for estimates and design. Mad Dog

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  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
    Yup...

    And THAT is what makes you "dangerous".... to him :)

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  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    Ya know Pahdna'

    I looked at the pics a couple times after I got back from Waterloo last week. I scanned over 'em again yesterday and found my self looking at them again now..........

    I just don't know what to say or comment besides these two things.

    1. There are so many things wrong with that job that they defy enumeration here. Listing all of them would probably cause Al Gore's own Internet to crash.

    2. The people who perpetrated this parsimonious pile of pipe should be neutered in order to prevent the further propagation of whatever species they are. Hopefully it's not to late.
  • Sean Smith
    Sean Smith Member Posts: 4
    Well said!

    Hopefully Mr. Eatherton will give me the pleasure of hacking that pile of scrap down and repiping it all. We all see some crazed work out there, and it's good to know I'm on the good guys side!
  • Mitch_4
    Mitch_4 Member Posts: 955
    good god

    I do not do a lot of hydronics, but I realize the need for supports.

    I see darn few ANYWHERE. pump, pipe wiring..HELLO? solder joint are NOT adequate..

    there is so much here I can't spendthe time, and this isn't my area of expertise..Geographically I am 90% FA, occassional boiler work, and my 9 yr old daughter thtought it was bad
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Mr Eatherton ??

    Wallies, Sean Smith works for AHI. He's the one that supervised the extraction and replacement of the "Aerial" heat exchangers. He's new to the company and doesn't know that my dad, Mr Eatherton, passed away about 6 years ago:-)

    Welcome to the Wall Sean.

    If I get my way, you will be in there performing Sawzall Surgery. I know, I know, we're not supposed to play favorties, but IF i get MY way...

    Thanks for working for us pal. It's been a pleasure, and I look forward to many prosperous years ahead.

    ME
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    A sleep at the wheel...

    Sorry Kevin, It is a SSU 119 DW, and it is being fed with 1", but there is no priority. I think that was their reasoning behind wanting to do 2 Munchies.

    The water FLIES through there with the monster pump that is there, but come compounded loads at design condition, not sure how well it will work.

    I'd have done it MUCH differently...

    ME
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Saga update...

    Went by the job today to check and make sure everything I'd done was working OK. GC was gone, but assistant said the city turned the job down. Well, imagine MY suprise:-)

    Walked down to the boiler room, and lo and behold, the MC was there ripping out the vent. Based on what I saw, it appears the developer is giving him a chance to make it right (rightfully so). I didn't want to upset the apple cart, so I left them to their own devices. I'll swing by in the next couple of days, now that the developer has my letter of noted deficiencies and we will see what transpires next.

    Stay tuned...

    ME
  • Tony_23
    Tony_23 Member Posts: 1,033
    MC ?

    What's that mean ? Is it "Mickeymouse Contractor" ?

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  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    Critique wanted.

    Hi Mark. Critique nothing.I love screwed up jobs.ALL of my customers come by referals only, as we do not advertise in anyway ,shape or form.Our satisfied customers send us more work and new referals.At time/materials I really,really like being able to "Just fix the damn thing"for my new customer.No lawyers, no judges ,no courtrooms.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    MC = Maniacal Contractor (NM)

    ME
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    So Sad...

    ... well, to start with the obvious, the windows above the exhausts look operable to me... breathing down on the regulator is probably not a good idea either. Having the exhaust that close to an electrical box also ought to make for some interesting operating conditions.

    It's nice to see the I&O manuals out... why weren't the instructions followed?

    The "combined pri-sec" header is hilarious. Obviously, it had a former life as a swingset somewhere before it was repurposed and bent to fit this install. It truely is amazing how much pipe was installed at odd angles and without isolation valves... that'll make the super extra happy when something breaks!

    Never mind the lack of pipe support anywhere... I love the undersized pipe feeding the indirect water heater... that'll make for some happy campers. Interesting to see the same issues plaguing hydronic as well as steam systems, I guess (hacks undersizing pipe).

    Clearly, the old beast had seen better days... just where did all that water come from that caused it's front to pucker up like that? Leaving the chimney breech open like that is an interesting way to ensure combustion air for a system that is sealed. :-P But seriously, with a big breech like that, why not run the flue and intake pipe up to the roof?

    Interesting also to see how the heat is supposed to get from the boilers to the tenants. The cramped header on the wall is but a cruel joke. No differential pressure bypass, etc. At least the zone valves got labeled!
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    It is always refreshing to get your take too *~/:)

    you got to admit though ,...that Hammond valve looks,.. Good:)

  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    Thanks Weez......

    I always get a little "tuned" wading through your syntax so consider the compliment returned. q:)
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