New steam system in old building

Arnold

Thanks to all who responded to my post: Steamhead,Bob Young, Long beach Ed, thefurnitureguy. You guys are great. The encouragement and advice you give so freely I appreciate. When I posted, I was half expecting some criticism for choosing to use a dead technology. Some Wallies may have read the post and preferred to pass on it. In the past this site has seen a lot of heated debates on the pros and cons of steam heat and so everyone is tired of it. So now I climb back to my silent perch above the wall to read and learn as you professionals have a go at each other. Thanks again! especially to you Dan (The Man) Holohan............ Arnold

Arnold

New steam system in old building

Gentlemen of the wall: I am doing a gut rehab of a 4 story brick building in New York City. There is one apartment on each floor. For heating, I have chosen to re-instal the one pipe steam system that existed in the building before. I know that the majority of the professionals on this forum will probably think I am crazy to instal a new one pipe steam system in this modern age when "more efficient" hot water systems are available. Well, I do believe that for my situation steam makes more sense as these are rental units. Urban tenants in these old buildings are not too kind to the infrastructure and my greatest fear is of damaged hot water pipes and radiators. At least with steam you can whack away with your sledge hammer on the cast iron and still not do too much damage. Anyway, I digress! My main question for you is this: I have done a heat loss calculation for all the rooms in the building ( Slantfin Hydronic Explorer) and I spec'd out new thin tube Governale radiators. They come out with a total EDR of 338 sq ft or 81,120 Btu's. Total piping for supply, risers and mains comes out as follows: 104 ft x 1 1/2 in., 55 ft x 1 1/4 in. and 60 ft x 2 in. According to the tables in Dan Holohan's LAOSH and Patrick Linhardt's Field Guide if all this piping was bare it would radiate a total of 40,320 Btu's or the equivalent of 168 sq ft EDR. Now, in sizing the boiler, would I be correct in adding radiator Btu's and piping Btu's ( 81,120 + 40,320 = 121,440 ) and selecting the boiler from the " Gross Rating " column of the manufacturer's catalog. Would you consider all of this piping (roughly 50% of total heat loss) as "extensive piping"?. Since all of the risers will be hidden in the wall cavities and insulated with 1/2 in. fiberglass, will I be safe with going with the standard 33 1/3 % pickup factor and selecting a boiler for 338 Edr from the Net column? The mains will be insulated with 1 inch fiberglass. Thanks to all steam lovers who care to respond? No, I am not in the heating business. I am a DYI homeowner/landlord/tinkerer who has learned a tremendous amount about steam from this site since 2000.

bob young

good move

the plus sise is also the mongrels will not chop out & steal the black pipe for mungo like they would with copper. we love steam too. a new york city lic. plbr. down side--- zoning is tricky but not undoable.

Steamhead (in transit)

Arnold, if all that piping

is sized to the load it will carry, well vented and well insulated, the built-in 1.33 pickup is fine. Go ahead and use the Net ratings to select your boilers.

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thfurnitureguy_2

Arnold, Congrats on the steam choice. It is the best way to heat a big building. I have the same setup. I would sugest TRVs after you find out where the windows are being kept open . The tennents will give you a line if they can't adjust somthing. The old ones are too cold and the young ones are too hot, and you are the guy with only one t-stat. On the good side It is amazing how the heat can get across a 300 foot building in only a few min.

soot_seeker_2

Just a tip regarding Governale radiators.

You don't have too many choices when selection cast iron radiators. I've done what you are doing several times.

Beware of the Governale radiators. Just about one out of every two will have a problem that will require a bit of work. Some will leak between sections, others will be filled with casting sand. Some will be tapped improperly. You can usually get them to work. But they are Made in China.

Set up a little station to test them with street pressure water before installing them, or you will be in for surprises.

The Burnham ones are better if you get American ones. The ones made by Burnham during the peak season are Chinese also and will give the same problems. Burnhams also cost lots more.

Another problem area is radiator valves. Not many American ones out there. Stay away from anything Chinese. Indonesia isn't too bad. The Chinese castings will leak, threads pull out and give you problems you don't need.

I suppose we'll see more of this as we slip deepaer and deeper into the Third World.

Long Beach Ed

JohnNY

Made in China?

I thought Governale made them for Burnham.

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soot_seeker_2

They might...

Burnham told me that during the summer they cast them in Pennsylvania, but when their busy season comes they cast them in China. Their Chinese ones are better than Govenale's Chinese ones, so maybe they are made in the same factory or river bank or wherever, but they do differ from Governale's quality.

Long Beach Ed

Steamhead (in transit)

Steam is not dead

as long as we're here!

We'd love to see pics of this job. Feel free to post as many as you can.

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