Am I getting a fair price?

Unknown

If you paid for all my experiance and knowledge, you are getting one heck of a deal. That 9k would not even cover the aisprin alone. Sir you are not just buying a peice of equipment: YOU ARE BUYING THE FOLLOWING


.01 my bad back

.02 my bad knees

.03 my arthrittic hands

.04 the lost vacations

.05 the lost time from our family

.06 the lost boy scout outings

.07 being late for your own birthday party

.08 could not begin to count the busted knuckles

Your 8k would not even touch the training, tools much less one truck. The amount of time we spend educatating our people would put the a large dent in our national defficate.
So if you take this response as personally. please do. I know and have met many of the fine folks who post here on a regular basis. They are the best of the best and know one will put a price tag on anothers man work.



Peace Be With You


David C. Broome


Please excuse any wrong spelling, the eyes are about gone too.

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Steve Goldstein

Am I getting a fair price?

I am about to replace a 23-year-old old Utica Boiler and a POS forced air furnace.

After getting quotes from different installers who recommended various brands and solutions with various efficiencies, I've decided to go with a Baxi Luna HT330 connected to an air handler that will service the current FHA portion of the home. Total price is $9100, but I will get a 10% rebate from NYS because it's an EnergyStar installation. So that will bring the price down to $8200. Alternate solutions offered by other contractors were approximately $2500 less, but the efficiency of the Baxi Luna should save me $750/year (if I was to install a basic cast iron Utica boiler similar to the one I'm replacing), so it seemed worth the extra expense.

So after considering my options, I think this was a good choice, but I continue to be amazed at the price. I commonly hear of people getting new furnaces for $3k. Now I understand that those installations are much less complex than mine, but sheesh, I can't believe that I'm paying the 3x that amount on my heating system.

So my question is simply this: Does $9k seem like a reasonable price to pay for what I'm getting, or am I getting shafted?

Thanks,

Steve

John Starcher_4

Steve......

...we, as a rule, do not discuss pricing on this forum. None of us can comment on the prices quoted to you without personally seeing the installation requirements. Each job is different, with specifics of the installation determining the final cost.

The smart contractors know their cost of doing business, an will add a FAIR profit number to ensure their continued survival. Ours is not an inexpensive business to be in, what with all of the training, overhead, more training, tools, insurance, payroll, inventory, overhead, more training................

Beware the "lowball" price, as most knuckleheads quoting them are pricing themselves right out of business. Human nature is funny.....many people will not blink at paying 30K+ for an automobile, but balk at a 6K boiler installation which will last them many, many years if properly maintained.

Ask for references from your contractor, then check them out. A well designed, safe, efficient heating system that runs trouble free is worth it's weight in gold.

Starch

Constantin

We don't discuss pricing here...

... too many variables for anyone to consider.

Steve Goldstein

Yeah, but...

I wasn't looking for anything precise. I was just hoping for a "That doesn't sound out of line" type of response.

David Sutton_6

I'm with Starch..

Steve, Check the company out make some calls, talk to people,there are alot of fly by nighters out there, you want to know that down the road if there is a problem and sometimes there are, that they will be there for you!Like in most things, things that are going to save you money cost more, things that dont are cheeper, compare apples to apples.got more then one quote on the same product, ask for photos of jobs done.....David

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John Starcher_4

OK.....

...how's this:

"That doesn't sound out of line." ;-)

Again, without seeing the specifics of your particular installation, it's impossible to say.

I'm really not trying to be vague, it's just not possible to comment on the price without looking at the job.

To be frank, that really doesn't sound out of line to me, speaking in the most absolutely generic terms possible, and it may be on the low side. Again, and I can't say this enough, the SPECIFICS of your installation will determine the final price.

Starch

John Ketterman

As you said, people get "furnaces" for much less. You are getting a "boiler". Unfortunately, hot water heat is more expensive than forced air heat.

Your estimate of how much you will save should not entirely drive your decision. You may not save as much as you think (and then again, you may save even more).

If your installation is complex, the price may be quite reasonable. But it is impossible to judge from here, which is why such discussions are discouraged. The only way to judge if a price is reasonable is to get more quotes.

jwade55_2

The real question I pose, when asked this type of question

is... Are YOU comfortable with it? If so, and is within your budgetary constraints, go for it.

J

Plumdog_2

probably not out of line

costs of parts alone for that job are twice what a whole furnace job would be. And, parts prices keep going up at heretofore unprecedented rates.

Weezbo

Whata Deal

prices vary and you are speaking with a fairly well represented and disparate batch of human beings here *~/:)

about a year ago that might have been a fair price buh in today's market that sounds like an exceptional deal.


Really, there is no telling. it would be impossible to figure out how someone else runs their business when its all we can do to run our own

some companies Buy work just to keep their guys occupied for the duration....

remodeling work can often run three times that quote,....when our crystal ball allows us to see the vagarities there is usually something hidden behind the viel that proves the crystal ball isnt as good as the all amazing allseeing eye.

i hope that has helped and you now feel more confident in your decision to go with the best quality energy efficent installation that you can get as the prices for energy and labour and materials will only increase as our economy awakens this comming year.

have a great day. Thank everyone for their bids or proposals and go with what you think is the best long term investment in your physical and finacial comfort. sometimes filling an immediate need isnt as valuable as planing and the long term outlook. True?

Steve Goldstein

decision

I did think the Baxi, for just over $8k after the NYS EnergyStar rebate, was the best combination of quality and efficiency. The less efficient boilers other contractors quoted weren't that much less expensive. The Viessmann high efficiency boiler one contractor recommended was probably a better unit, but didn't offer the venting flexibility of the Baxi (in terms of going up a chimney flue with PVC), and cost approximately $6k more than the Baxi.

So I think the Baxi gives me the efficiency without being prohibitively priced.

Mad Dog_2

Define \"FAIR\" Steve

Mad Dog

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Steve Goldstein_2

definition of fair

A fair price would be a price that is similar to what other contractors would charge for the same system. This contractor is the only contractor in my area who installs Baxi products. So I couldn't get quotes from other Baxi contractors. The best I could do is get quotes from other contractors for products that they sell. Contractors who recommended boilers with lower efficiency ratings tended to come in with quotes approximately $2.5k lower than the Baxi quote (they would have been $3.5k lower, but the NYS rebate helped make the Baxi sale). The Viessmann rep suggested a Vitodens 200 boiler, but quoted a price that was $6k higher than the Baxi quote.

With cars, you can go to all of the Brand X dealerships in your area and compare apples to apples. There is only one Baxi boiler rep in my area, so this wasn't possible. And that's why I originally asked my "fair price" question.

Cosmo_3

My 2 cents

Steve, you have been very patient and I applaud you.

However, a heating system unfortunately is not the same as buying a car. I am not trying to get a rise out of you, it is just true. Every contractor does his job a little different.
As far as venting, here is my rule of thumb; NEVER install PVC venting for a heating system, no matter what the manufacture says.... UNLESS the whole venting system can be serviced, and/or replaced at a later date without tearing out drywall.

Viessmann; the Vitodens is the BEST condensing/modulating burner boiler you can buy in my opinion, however the Baxi is also a good unit, so is the Buderus GB. Much more important than the brand of boiler is the guy designing/installing it.

So, to help you out here is a suggestion. You want to be able to make an apples to apples comparison right? Then find a hydronic expert and pay him to design a system for you. Tell him you want flexibility as far as brand of boiler. He will look at your house as a whole, how you live in it, what type of radiation you have, etc. He can draw a piping diagram, and give you a control strategy.

You give this design to the heating contractors you want to bid on the job, and ask them what they think. You want the guy who understands the design, heck he might even have a suggestion to improve it. I would probably shy away from the guys that wouldn't want to look at it. Sure this might cost you a couple bucks more than you want to spend now, but it is a lot better than asking us here in this forum... you see we can't see the job, and a heating system just is not a commodity product, ESPECIALLY when a boiler is involved. With anything in life, a little time and cost researching can really pay big dividends later.....

Good luck Steve!


Cosmo Valavanis

Dependable P.H.C. Inc.

Rich_18

$

If you want a corvette , you pay for it!As far as boilers go your buying a corvette Sir, & the price sounds good

Mad Dog_2

Couldn't respoond better

Hey Steve, do you think its a coincidence that he is the only one around who installs Baxi? I agree with the others here: You are buying a Corvette, but the difference would be that the Corvette Engine comes in parts and the mechanic has to assemble it on site....3 mechanics...3 different results. Mad Dog

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Paul Mitchell_3

Good question

$9,100.00......A house in NJ costs at least 300,000.00 A car...a Hyundai at that might cost about the same price. But you would not still depend on it for safe and reliable operation etc. in ten or twenty years. You do get what you pay for, as long as you have a pro installing it.