Ground water chiller system

Brad White_39

As far as aquafers, you could always tie in to a glacier or two :)

Great call on going for radiant! They will thank you and what a marketing concept. Forget the towels and small soap, we have radiant floors! Floors by Rocky (tm).


Brad

Rocky_2

Need input on using ground water as chilling fluid for a/c

Approached by a builder today that I have done work for in the past. He is going to build a hotel and approached me for the work. 60,000 sq. ft. of radiant. Asked about alternatives for cooling the rooms. I know our ground water here is right at about 38 degrees. Does anyone out there have any experience on using groundwater to supply cold water to a coil to cool a room? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thought either about using a large coil-type system down the well casing itself, or pumping groundwater out, through a heat exchanger supplying a holding tank to chill the tank, then reinjecting the water back down a separate well.

Any suggestions or reference material would be greatly appreciated. Or you can e-mail me at: rockysheating@acsalaska.net

Warm regards from chilly Fairbanks (-18 today). Great time to be thinking of COOLING!
Regards,
Rocky

Brad White_9

Cool idea...

Our company explored using a quarry here in MA for a business office complex. Below 100 feet the water was perfect at about 40 degrees year-round. You have to know your aquifer and it's approximate volume plus separation distances. Plate heat exchangers are the rule to avoid mineralization on condensing surfaces. I think Iceland uses a lot of these systems along with use of geothermal.

Radiant hotel! The developer has their head screwed on straight, that's for sure.

Tom R.

Wells

for cooling sounds great if you can get temps that low. But... you will probably need three or four diffusion wells for each supply well, and Calgon to make the effluent "slippery" - it's harder to get the water back into the ground. Then you have to separate them a distance apart, and distribute the used water into a different aquifer, maybe at several levels. You really should get a geologist familiar with the area to consult on this, or all might be a waste. Then there's cleaning the diffusion wells every so often... All this is needed for well water used for condensing and works much better than a cooling tower, with great savings for electricity. So: if I haven't discouraged you yet, if you can have your water temperature that cold without reefer equipment, go for it. There might be some "green" incentives and tax credits, too. Good luck, and let us know how it works out.

Joe Brix

I thought below frost

temps were around 50° not 40°. Maybe a closed system with tubing would be easier to implement.

Dave_4

hi can someone please give me more info on chillers and how they are used for A/C dose it replace the r22 can someone tel me how this works and do they work on the east cost

thank you

Brad White_39

Temperatures below frost line

Temperatures below frost line depend on where you live, Joe. Typically the temperature below the local frost line is fairly constant and represents the average annual temperature within a degree or so. The subject project Rocky refers to is in Alaska. The quarry we were going to use was deep with lots of volume. It was all the winter freezing that carried over as a deep cold well. Supply was drawn deep and the return near the surface.

Brad White_39

Another thought...CORNELL U.

Cornell University cools much of it's campus using lake water... It was written up in ASHRAE a while back and came on line in 2001.

Here are links to Cornell's Lake Source Cooling Plant

http://test.utilities.cornell.edu/utl_ldlsc.html

http://test.utilities.cornell.edu/utl_lscfte_howlscworks.html

Rocky_2

ground water chiller

Took my digital thermometer to the cold water tap on my kitchen faucet. 38 degrees. Too cold to drink without every cavity in my mouth exploding. Actually hurts your hands.

Good comments all. Never thought about getting the ground to "accept" the water back as fast as I took it out. Was going to explore sticking a large tube bundle down the well itself and allow the migrating ground water to cool the water in the closed loop system. This way I don't actually have to reinject the ground water like I would if I actually pumped water out of the well. Am going to talk to the local University Geology or Hydrology dept to see if the ground water migration in this area is sufficient to pull the heat out. Lots of "ifs", but it would save a TON of money on electricity over the course of the building's life. And lets face it. "Cooling" season here in Fairbanks, Alaska, is not the same as most other areas of the known universe! MOst times we just open our windows.

Contractor was going to use air handlers for heating and cooling, but he is pouring gypcrete for sound dampening between floors. When I heard this, I jumped on the radiant soapbox and he agreeed this would be most comfortable for occupants. LOTS of Wirsbo and tekmar stuff. I can't wait!

Any more first hand info on ground water chillers from anybody else out there will be appreciated.
Warm regards from chilly Fairbanks,
Rocky

Brad White_39

Jason

If you want, e-mail me off line and I will tell you anything I can that you need to know.

Brad

GMcD

Ground source chilled water

Sure, that's a fine idea and it's been done before. Like many of the comments here, watch out for the suction and disposal well design/location. I like the HEX and storage tank idea, safe, gives you some control. I've designed direct ground water for the condenser bundles on a large shopping centre chiller plant, and used the ground water directly through the fresh air supply units for the same shopping centre to temper the air on the way to four-pipe fan-coils. The water in that case was around 53F to 55F if I recall correctly. Why not consider a geo-exchange water to water heat pump set as well, and get better energy efficiency- use it for low grade supplemental heating in spring and fall, and then bypass the heat pump and use the ground water/HEX set as the "chiller" during pure cooling only seasons (short, but sweet up there).

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

give me a call Rocky

I did it in my house 5 years ago with 56 degree well water, and it works great. call and I'll explain in greater detail. Bob Gagnon

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