St Martin sharing his coat for heat, more efficient with steam

Christian Egli_2

This church has a very interesting hydronic heat application I thought many here would find fascinating. You just need to look under your lucky seat.

The hydronic pew

When I visited, it was mildly cold outside, light jacket needed, the church itself was very cozy and the water temperature was just above 100F. Sitting on the pews was most comfortable and since air temperature did not feel very high, I did not find it necessary to remove my jacket.

I did enjoy the way the hydronic heat was spreading itself all on me, maybe too much... I really like the parsimonious application of heat just where it matters without wasting any anywhere else.

But how about a bionic pew? Wouldn't that be neat?

How much more enjoyable would steam heat be?

Of course, switching the current system to steam while keeping the same radiation would be one sure way of quickly propelling parishioners to heaven... but there is no need to force conversions upon any of us. Think about how many advantages a steam application gives.

First, the steam radiation pipes would have been made to a much smaller size, thus saving much installation cost. This (~1908) church underwent a deep renovation in the nineties in the amount of ~4 million dollars.

Second, this would have totally avoided all air bubble purging problems associated with this current system. There are lots and lots of pews, all heated.

Third, a small piped steam system has very little inertial mass to put the brakes on any desired rapid change in heating conditions, which a church always sees:

- Mass heating is really only needed for a few separate hours per week (the rest of the time deep setback provides much savings). Swift steam shines in this regard.

- Also, once the congregation fills the pews and the sermon gets heated, temperatures easily reach comfort level without need for further boiler heat. With just a sign, the fire of the steam dragon can be extinguished, just like St Georges does. On the other hand, a flood of hot water will extend your penitence.

Fourth, with steam, the empty pipes can be disconnected without complication. Definitely not true of water systems. This feature would be a godsend if ever any pews needed to be temporarily removed for a special occasion.

Ohhh, how I would have enjoyed this steam fix.

It occurs to me, the way this church is heated is exactly the way plant beds are heated in a hot house. Works great. The only difference is the potted plants reside 24/7 in the hot houses, while the congregation in a church only visits. That's a significant distinction that should be taken into consideration for fuel saving.

The only other dissimilarity I can think of is that I don't much look like a pink potted plant.

Is obsessing about steam a sin? How else will you keep your seat warm? Thanks for reading ;)

DanHolohan

Thanks for sharing that,

along with the photos. Great stuff!

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks like it would be a very expensive install.



Ed

Christian Egli_2

Thanks for the great forum

Without you, who would I show my pictures of radiators to? Thanks for looking and as always I am happy to contribute something.

Christian Egli_2

Tushy comfort makes it worth it

It all really looks a lot like what is standard for hot houses, namely just welded steel pipes. The supplies should be cheap enough, it's the labor of attaching each to the underside of the pew that must be the most expensive, but then again, if you're doing this at the carpenter's shop where the pews are being refinished, you can get in a good rut that should be more efficient than anchoring ordinary fin tubes to a wall or a floor.

The thing is each pew had a heated tube, and that's a lot of individual units.

I imagine a staple up pex installation should be cheaper, but I haven't seen any staple up done in Europe. Me, I still think this would be a nice application for steam and for comfort you can feel...

Brad White_9

That explains the rapid

stand-sit-kneel activity... Turn up the heat for a final hallelujah!

Seriously, great idea, keep heat near the occupants where it counts.

[Deleted User]

I'd have used..

extruded plates and PEX. Of course, that WOULDN"T work if it were steam...

ME

Christian Egli_2

That's like busting a state secret



Nice

Christian Egli_2

Steel is still cool

Yeahh, that's the problem with PEX... not that there is anything wrong with steam.

Rubber usually resists the 212+ steam temperature, so does silicone, so does polypropylene - the one used for difficult sewer lines. I'have seen PP condensate lines in a chemical plant, flashing steam condensate lines at atmospheric pressure.

Brad White_9

Steam will work with PEX

Once.

clammy

wild stuff

That's some wild stuff ,i'm not much of a church goer but if that was present i probalby be there at least once .thanks for the great post just when you think you saw it all what a great idea to get the heat really where you need it that whole job though must have been a pretty penny thanks again anf greta eye opener peace and good luck clammy

Tony Conner_2

Bench Heater

Here's a scan from the old Audel's Plumbers & Steamfitters Guide".