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Weil Mclain buys Chinese Boiler Mfg.
Mad Dog_2
Member Posts: 8,041
I always did have trouble staying on the sidelines. In case you forgot....I have always been a BURNHAM man. When I can't get a Burnham, then it is a Peerless. When a customer wants high-tech it is a Buderus. WM has always been a really good boiler, but I saw too many leakers from the o-rings to ever want to carry their line. It must be said though, that they have always stood behind their product in the rough times as had Munchkin. That is quite commendable. WE put in a few a year when they are requested, and it seems they fixed the o-ring problem several years ago. If this latest news is true, however, I will do everything I can to avoid them altogether. Last I checked, Burnham still and will continue to cast their own iron right here in USA. I buy all my valves from Wolverine BRass and pay more for the USA ones. I make purchasing decisions on a sliding scale based on the countries civil and human rights record, our relationship with them., and the quality of the product. China is always at the bottom of my list. Unfortunately, we are getting stuck with more and more products every day from China. As an earlier poster said..."the enemy is us" although I will NOT put myself in the same boat as most Americans. I go OUT OF MY WAY, often cutting my profits significantly - to buy American. Stupid business? Perhaps, but that is how I feel about My Country. It is heartbreaking to see where we are headed, but it is out-of-control materialism that fuels the Bargain-crazy American. Hey this is Capitalism and a market economy at work. I'll still take it over all the rest. It may take a few decades to correct itself, but I have faith in America. The backlash against the cheap Chinese stuff is already underfoot. THe Japanese stuff was definitely a big cut above this crappy Chinese stuff. History is a series of cycles..ebb and flow...up and down. WE will learn from this. God Bless America and the GReat companies like Burnham that are gutting it out in the USA. Mad Dog
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Comments
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Will Chinese make Weil Mclain Boilers?
Does this mean cast iron sections will be imported from China? The Ultra is already being made overseas. I would imagine the labor to run a foundry is significantly cheaper overseas. Will Weil Mclain lower their prices? Should they? Why does Americe have to farm out all it's manufacturing? A Patriot
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Probably not a good thing
For thier cost , maybe>> as far as price reduction i dought it
I am in the steel industry and can tell you the quality of oversea's steel is pathetic [they hoard our scrap steel and reproduce it into a comodity]
I use to see trailer springs last 12-15 years, but as of last 5 years, they barely last 5 years0 -
America, Ahh what a topic
What you are witnessing is "The Selling of America". In a nut shell, since we are over taxed, over burdened, highly pissed off, Americans are forced to purchase the cheapest product they can get. Quality means little anymore and price is everything.... Just ask Wall mart patrons. Sad but true is the company platform that has to go outside of this country to try and turn a profit. It is now the norm not just a random move to survive. Keep driving that Lexus........America. Better yet,..Buy that spray nozzle from wall mart at .96 cents. It leaks, but was super cheap. Made in CHINA. Great county, but It's going down FAST. If you don't believe it ask your local Union leaders or better yet ask yourself. You cannot rely on News, politicians because they are all biased.
Sorry about the Rant/Rave
Mike T.
Mike T.0 -
Ahh Wal-Mart
The decline of Western Civilization. Imagine how many American Companies WalMart has put out of business. Walmart motto: Everything you need, nothing you want.
$800,000 a day is spent in Walmart stores every day and over a billion over the holidays. Take a look at where their clothes, toys etc. are made. Now American Boiler manufacturers are farming out work to China. Will this cost American Jobs, you bet.
Whenever I hear a manufacturer say "We Care" yeah, about PROFIT. I drive an American car and it's real hard to find items in stores Made In America. What Happened?
I believe this cheapens the Weil Mclain name and their line...
Rick an American0 -
I doubt the prices will go down to reflect the lower quality of the product and lower labor cost to produce. Let's guess though what will happen to executive pay and bonuses--after all they deserve more because they reduced costs and increased profit...0 -
Listen. we have plenty people thinking 'how do we do it'?....
some countries are overwhelmed with various artificial impediments to insure things Dont get done,i think it to be a challange to work in such an environment.Man has a choise adapt thrive,survive or die.
There is a cool pond everything is peaceful. throw a rock in the pond it causes ripples,those ripples continue out and away from that spot until they reach a block then they bounce off at various tangents,some of these ripple then return to and from the source. people are like that ,so,is civilization in my mind.Small things the original ripples bypass and surround and continue on doing what they have been doing.some things are carried away on these ripples.that is what is happening.when the rock sinks it releases air in the form of bubbles that rise to the surface and others that get trapped beneath the surface unable to unentangle from things beneath the surface until something acts upon them to release them from their captivity,that too is happening. the only thing that changes any of these things from happening or channels them or re directs them is Work.
Work requires some efforting , not all effort is right effort in that it doesent produce the desired effects.
being able to know what right effort is requires right contemplation:)
right now some of what is being worked at may not produce the desired effects. my crystal ball is pretty good buh at this time there are obsuring ripples on the surface:)
in other words ...i havent a clue
and must get back to work.
*~/:)0 -
Wild Mick
I feel they cheapend their line 20 years ago when they went o-ring over push nipples...0 -
O-rings
I'm with Big Ed on that one!0 -
O-rings???
Didn't the Space Shuttle Challenger have faulty O-rings???
Hummmm.0 -
The elastomer seals
on the space shuttle were not faulty. Prior to launch; they had been subjected to ambient temperatures well outside listed parameters for a prolonged period of time.
They got most of the rap in the CYA that followed.
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Correction
$800.000.000 per day around the United States spent at Wal-Mart, selling very very little made in America... Weil Mclain is no better than Wal-Mart.
Rick0 -
I don't know Rick
Just where are all the parts for that American car made ?
America only wants cheap ? Last time I looked a Lexus was out of my pay scale.
Cry in your soup or make a better product. Anybody check how much a Starbucks coffee cost ? Anybody check how much they made last year ?
Viessmann and Buderus seem to sell really well over here. and I don't consider them cheap products.
By the way, did anybody notice that Walmart is opening a High End store ?????
Oh Yea, I totally agree about the O-rings, steel push nipples all the way. Let them make a cheeper product, that whys I don't buy them.
Scott
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Scott
Buderus & Viessmann are fine examples of German Engineering, no illusions, no surprises, they have never been an American made product that has farmed out work overseas. We know what we have when we purchase them. Once again, no surprises. They have not cheapened their product to get the Wal-Mart err Weil McLain crowd, sorry different ballpark.
On the contrary, there may be a big suprise when you look under a jacket of a Weil Mclain.
Scott if you have an axe to grind, hate the game not the player...0 -
Chinese products and the CPSC
My wife and I have young children at home. They've been receipients of numerous toys and other items, most of which are manufactured in China. They are poorly constructed and rarely last. They seem to have the same quality that many Japanese products had during the sixties "made in Japan" era. More disturbing though is the lack of health and safety conformance associated with the recent spate of Chinese products. For example, we subscribe to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) email list. Almost daily, Chinese products are recalled for gross safety violations. For example, a few days ago, the CPSC posted a report that a toddler DIED from lead poisoning after injesting a small Chinese-made jewelry item constructed with lead. BTW, lead (Pb) makes manufacturing of items such as jewelry very easy and inexpensive, but very unhealthy too. Watch out, especially for your chilren. I've confiscated and discarded most of the cheap Chinese jewelry and trinkets that were in my kid's possesion. And there's more - Many children's soft vinyl/plastic lunchboxes made in China are manufactured with materials exceeding the U.S. safe lead limits. Be careful what you send to school with your children's lunch...Sorry for rambling, but it's been a sore point of mine...I wonder when the Chinese boilers will explode. Glad I got my new WM a few years ago...0 -
Chinese products
My wife and I have young children at home. They've been receipients of numerous toys and other items, most of which are manufactured in China. They are poorly constructed and rarely last. They seem to have the same quality that many Japanese products had during the sixties "made in Japan" era. More disturbing though is the lack of health and safety conformance associated with the recent spate of Chinese products. For example, we subscribe to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) email list. Almost daily, Chinese products are recalled for gross safety violations. For example, a few days ago, the CPSC posted a report that a toddler DIED from lead poisoning after injesting a small Chinese-made jewelry item constructed with lead. BTW, lead (Pb) makes manufacturing of items such as jewelry very easy and inexpensive, but very unhealthy too. Watch out, especially for your chilren. I've confiscated and discarded most of the cheap Chinese jewelry and trinkets that were in my kid's possesion. And there's more - Many children's soft vinyl/plastic lunchboxes made in China are manufactured with materials exceeding the U.S. safe lead limits. Be careful what you send to school with your children's lunch...Sorry for rambling, but it's been a sore point of mine...I wonder when the Chinese boilers will explode. Glad I got my new WM a few years ago...
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Rick
I'm not picking on you, I was just making a point that All Americans arn't after the cheapest product, Allthough at times it may seem that way.
W.M. wants to cheapen thier product, too bad, they should loose market share because of it. If they don't then shame on the consumer.
Its a global market we're in now. Your American made car is really an American Assembled car.
No axe to grind, just thought I'd get in on the conversation.
Scott
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Right on with that. For the rest, well, we got what we asked for. Four more years baby, four more years. Where have all the dollars gone, long time passing. Where have all our dollars gone, long time ago. Where have all our dollars gone, gone to Bechtel every one, when will we ever learn, when will we ever learn. Don't whine: you earned it.0 -
Just so you know,
if this thread gets political I'm going to take it down. Thanks for your cooperation.Retired and loving it.0 -
Couldn't have said it better myself Weez - check my comment down the line.0 -
Right on: and quality, and service, always trumps price in my book. High End at Walmart..a new oxymoron perhaps? How far do I have to bend over to get this high end? Will they buy me dinner first?0 -
Time to read The World Is Flat by Thomas Friedman. Yeah, were outsourcing the stuff that can be outsourced, leaving us time and energy to develop more/better technology.
Henry Ford got everyone P.O.d when he started mechanizing the assembly line. The sky was going to fall and the world was going to end. Looking back, would we be where we are today if hed abandoned his ideas?
Outsource to a country where people want to get paid for working instead of sitting around doing nothing. Unions serve a purpose, but I have a problem with some of the concessions theyve burdened management with.
Youd be surprised what gets outsourcedor not. There are some fast food drive-thru windows where the person youre speaking to thru the microphone isnt in the store, the state or the country you think theyre in. That order can go overseas and back with fewer mistakes and faster than an on-site employee can handle it. Yes, the world is flat and getting smaller
Your American Ford is now built in Canada and your foreign Honda is built in Ohio. So the money for Ford comes home to America, but the worker doesnt get a taste. The money for the Honda goes to Japan, but the guy in Ohio is feeding his family and putting his kids through school.
Someone has finally brought me a glass of water and some aspirin, so Im feeling better now. Back to your regularly scheduled rants
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My car is from 1993
A Pontiac, hopefully made in USA. I just hope WM isn't risking their reputation by farming jobs out overseas regardless of what country. I certainly have nothing against Asians. Just think some cloak and dagger will occur with that acquisition.
We sell American Boilers and German Boilers it's the customer's choice. Hopefully I am not being
political, this post is too important to be deleted. There is a real message here for all...
Rick
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Forced to purchase? Sorry big-guy, we do it gladly out of sheer greed and stupidity. We have met the enemy, and it is us.0 -
Think you got it backwards. Everything you want, nothing you need, might be more on point.0 -
Interesting Points
Also consider where the US boilers and other devices derive their parts from. Look at a water heater, what is the most expensive part? the gas valve. Where is it made, frequently abroad (at least WR does it in Mexico, IIRC)
Look under the hood of a Munchkin... French HX & castings, German gas valve, German blower, etc. The only parts that strike me as local is the rotomolded exterior, the wiring, and other bits and pieces. Most of the value is imported goods, assembled locally. Other mod/con boilers either follow the same track or are private-label goods that are imported en masse.
What it comes down to is that the EU is not a low-cost labor market, far from it. However, the hydronic manufacturers there have had a export-oriented strategy for far longer than US manufacturers on average. As a result, these companies derive a bigger percentage of their income from "foreign" sales. Some US sectors have also had a export-oriented strategy... semiconductors, aviation, among others.
Many of the hydronic technologies currently imported into the US require expertise gained over time, substantial investments to get running, etc. Once the discoveries have been made, the production facilities built, etc. it makes a lot of sense to load them up as best you can. Every percentage utilitzation above a certain point becomes pure profit.
Plus, the high cost of the initial investments keeps others from enthering the field until their production levels reach a level where it makes sense to cut out the "middleman". Speaking of which, how much US-made content does the Bobcat contain?
Standard competitive strategy is to use small markets like the US hydronic industry to expand into from entrenched/saturated home markets (like the EU). There is potential for growth here, though I imagine that the likes of China with 17MM additional customers every year is far more exciting an opportunity.
What it comes down to is that trade usally only happens when it benefits both sides of the transaction. Imagine a world in which foreign trade partners reject Intel chips, Boeing planes, or US services abroad for the simple reason of origin. Competition is great for the end-user, it increases the choices and it tends to keep the market honest. For example, I believe that the increase in US car quality is a direct result of foreign competition.
With trade comes the possibility that US jobs are made redundant. However, I believe that the likes of Sub-Zero, VW, Boeing, Intel, AMD, Pfizer, Bayer, Fisher-Paykel, Buderus, Viessmann, etc. show that through differentiation, good strategy, and careful design that even manufacturing in "high-cost" countries can be profitable. Leave the bottom-feeding to your competitors and focus on the profitable market segments instead.0 -
Attn: Mad Dog
MD...what now? Will you still buy a WM boiler??
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Space Shuttle
tires are made by Michelin.
The big moving casting machines called Travelers that are used for casting the roadbed sections on the bridge I see from my front door were made in China.0 -
You get what you ask for from China
they are capable of making top quality components if asked to.
If I'm not mistaken most all B&G castings are from China and several other offshore sources.
The B&G iso-flanges are made in China and are of good quality. Same with the Webstone castings, Grundfos iso-valves.
The list gets longer ever day.
Actually Wal-Mart is a billion dollars a day sales, somebody must like what they sell
And the worlds largest trucking fleet. Driven by Americans.
hot rod
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The World is Flat...
...is a great book...worth reading twice.
rb0 -
This isn't about China or Politics
This is about a major American Boiler Manufacturer deciding it's time to turn a larger profit. Simple as that, nothing more. Money Money Money.
I have a friend who is a salesperson for a supplier that sells Weil McLain and he said he is embarassed and hopes they change lines.
Weil McLain is a sellout and they will find out the hard way that the American Workers have a voice...
Rick0 -
Where are my circular fertilizers?
Wonder what would happen to your mom if the chineese invaded? Invest in your second ammendment rights!!! Buy more Weil Mclain boilers. No wait!!! More General Tso's sesame chicken!!!0 -
I don't have to read it. I'm living it. And I don't give a damn where Walmart buys their stuff from, as long as they pay their employees decently, and give them health care. They don't, and that's why I don't shop there. I gladly pay a little more, not for made in America, but to support the folks who live next door to me; and no, I don't care what language they speak. I have the luxury of speaking with my wallet. Not that fat, but people listen.0 -
Who's left?
What boiler manufacturers do make their castings in the U.S.? It's hard to figure out who truly is an " American Manufacturer ". I try to support U.S. companies but it's tough to interpit the difference between " Made in USA " or " Assembled in the USA "
I understand that even an assembly plant puts people to work but I would rather support a company that manufactures, assembles and keeps the profits on the mainland.
Just another perspective0 -
For the sake fo WM
Let's hope they know how to do business in China. I just finished a book called "Mr. China". A good read about all the challenges of doing business in China. However, China has come a LONG way so let's not 'cast' judgement about WM's business intentions. No pun intended
However, one thing that puzzles me. China, to my knowledge does not have much of a market for boilers, so I would be curious to know the history of this firm. Maybe they have been making them under a private label for sometime?0 -
Assumptions!
Everyone seems to be assuming that the only reason W-M bought the Chinese company was to reduce the cost of boilers in North America. I haven't read anything saying that. It could well be that they merely want to make money off the exploding Chinese economy by applying their hydronic knowledge to a new market.0 -
Casting mark found on American boiler header...
You guessed it, Made in China. Me thinks we'd better get used to it. It is here to stay.
ME0 -
You know after reading
The press release, thats what it seems. As China modernize's its country they will stop burning coal and burn more fossil fuels, I knwo thats another whoel thread.
It seems that W.M. deal here, to get into an exploding market. Thats not to say they may ship the cast iron overe here. Buderus does it and it must be profitable.
I recieved and Kohler tub a few years back that had Made In China stamped on it. I thought it was a mistake but they said they where trying it out. Funny for a "test run " it got out in the field.
Does any one know if this practice by and American Compnay continiued ?
Scott
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I'd rather see
W-M buying a Chinese company than the other way around.
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Then again, who does own W-M
these days?? United Dominian owned them for a while, now i believe they are owned by an Australian holding company?/ Correct me if I am wrong.
Regardless, I say good for W_M for thinking globaly and looking for additional markets.
Isn't Buick the largest selling mid size in China??
hot rod
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