fhw loop attached to domestic hot water supply

viccipe

Where does a mechanical company stand when competing with companys willing to buy, sell and promote open loop as safe. I truly feel held to a higher degree when it comes to serving the public within the parameters of plumbing & heating. In addition i never here of enough or any publicity concerning the negative health impact open loop HAS already cause damaged to the public. What is your opinion and experience in this area?

Dan_29

fhw loop attached to domestic hot water supply

I have steam heat in my house. Nevertheless, it was recommended by my plumber to install two kickplate fhw heaters in my newly remodelled kitchen as radiators would not fit well and were not aesthetically pleasing to my wife. The fhw water loop supplying these kickplates is run off a 50 gallon gas domestic hot water tank.

Recently I have taken 3 bids to replace my gas steam boiler by steam heating pros. Each of these specialists observed the fhw loop of the domestic hot water heater and pronounced it a MA state plumbing code violation. They said that tapping a fhw loop off domestic hot water unit was ok in the past but is now a violation MA code. The reason being that stagnant water sits in the loop in non heating months and re-introduced into the domestic water supply in the next heating season. There have been reports of Legionaire's Disease resulting from this stagnant (bacteria filled?) water. My plumber maintains that he has installed dozens of these systems in Boston and has had no problems. The local suburban city building inspector signed off on the whole job last week.

Who is right on this one?

Dan

viccipe

Open Loop Systems and its overall exceptance?

I too would like to know what is the "scoobie" on loop and its exceptance everywhere?

I would like to know if there are any case incidents as of recent which shows open loop safe or not?

Does anybody know?

KBP&H

HW circ loop / kick heater

Recently had a job - reno- that had a circ loopfor a 75 gal gas w/, to the master bath- 60-70', job took couple months, job finished, etc-- went to check out bathroom and took forever for hot water, the circ pump homeowner said had not bees working for a while, but let it go because of the renovation. The entire circ loop was full of what looked like orange peel- some type of bacteria thet grew in the stagnant water ( also was city water). Took quite a bit of work to get it out, plugged press balance shower valves, etc. Domestic water is for domestic purposes only--- not for anything else, and at that stagnant water is an open invitation for anything that grows.. be careful....

Long Beach Ed

Did you ever see...

... what water looks like that runs around in a heating loop?

You wanna drink that stuff?

This is a definate no-no and always has been, at least in New York and probably anywhere else that uses indoor plumbing.

Long Beach Ed

Dan_29

fhw loop attached to domestic hot water supply

I bit the bullet and spoke to the local plumbing inspector who signed off on the job. He knows of nothing in the Comm. of MA. code that prohibits a fhw loop connected to the domestic hot water supply. Nevertheless, he said he would make a call to the state authorities and call me back on Monday with the answer.

I do not like contacting inspectors because it can cost one time and money on a job. Given my situation (high strung wife), I felt it was better to get the answer directly from the authorities that be . I will probably tie it into my new boiler as a precaution no matter what the answer is.

Dan

Dave Yates (PAH)

Study finds Boston water exempt from bacterial amplification!

Not.

Google "hot water + bacterial amplification"

If your wife was high-strung before, see how she reacts to the results of that Google search!

Until you get around to installing a new boiler, I'd strongly suggest you have a stainless steel heat exchanger or the Taco mixing block installed to isolate the potable from the hydronic water.

http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/products.html?current_category=191

Here's a link to an article with details on this issue and drawings that may help your plumber if you decide to install the HX.

http://www.healthyheating.com/tools/Dave Yates H20 vs Boiler.pdf



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Dan_29

fhw loop attached to domestic hot water supply

Thanks very much for your input Dave. I am going to change this loop asap.

The City plumbing inspector called me back this morning and said there is no prohibition of this type of hookup in the MA. State Plumbing Code. Nevertheless, the local city plumbing board must review and approve such installations. If the state sees no problem, why would the city plumbing board want to review installations? I suspect this a catch all response to cover their bureacratic backsides no matter what the problem is.

Thanks again for the input.

Dan

Dan_29

fhw loop attached to domestic hot water supply

I think it is an issue of education rather than professional ethics.

The heating specialist plumbers who spotted the problem for me seem to believe in education. One of the pros is listed on this page and quotes Holohan chapter and verse. The other specialist is a prominent name locally and on tv and also recognized one of Holohan's books on my counter mentioning that he had been to several "sessions". In other words, interested in the profession and willing to learn new things.

The plumber who installed the loop is a good person,however, his response, when I asked him why he worked so hard was "I want to retire at age 50". In other words, plumbing is a means to an end and not necessarily something he loved to do and wanted to become more educated about. He also stated he had done many of these systems and the "supply house people" had heard of no problems with this setup. His source of education seems to be the supply house staff which is like your doctor listening to the drug companies. It has its pros and cons for the customer.

Dan

G Lyons

Is domestic hot water not used for heating apartments

in some areas of the country.
george

harry_8

hot water heater

it would be better to just take off the bottom of your steam boiler with a lool to your kick heaters and not go to your water heater trust me it will work just fine

John Madden

By ANY recognized plumbing code domestic water hot or cold may not EVER be returned into the potable source. If the circulating water for heat is taken from a heat exchanger with seperation from the tank storage, then it will meet plumbing code. If not it is a definite infraction. Also these heaters are of limited effect because to produce rated outputs they require water at avg temp of 180°F. If your water heater is set that high you have more than one problem!