Steam Heat, is it cost effective to operate?

Steamhead

Scorched-air will never give you the comfort that steam will. With scorched-air, you'll find yourself turning the thermostat way up to stay comfortable. In contrast, steam heats a room by both radiation and convection- the latter warms the air and the former shines on you like the sun. So you stay comfortable at lower temperatures.

You will probably want to replace the boiler at some point, but the first thing to do is get acquainted with the system. Dan (webmaster) has written two books you should read- the first is "We Got Steam Heat" and the second, which goes into a LOT of detail, is "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". They're available on the Books and More page of this site.

The next thing is to hook up with a good steam heat contractor- which may or may not be the same ones doing your A/C (hint: if they are trying to push you toward ripping out the steam, you don't want to use them). Try the Find a Professional page of this site to locate one. If you're in the Baltimore area, e-mail me.

There are several types of steam heat systems, each having its own set of things to know. If you're not sure which type you have, take a pic of the boiler with associated piping, and one or two radiators. Post them here and we can help you.

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Bart_4

Is steam heat cost effective?

Hello all, I've just purchased a home that has an old steam heat system. The house does not have a/c at this time. I'm in the process of having a/c installed and am curious if I should leave the steam heating system in tact or if I should use some of the space the radiators take up for return air? The house is concrete and large. I have no idea what it will cost to run the boiler. It's original to the house (1934) and has not been used in the last two years. Convienently for the seller my gas company only keeps records for two years... Any help would be nice.

Thanks, Bart

Ken_8

I totally

agree with Steamhead.

Have a competent serviceman who works on steam whip your existing system into shape and then sit back and enjoy the comfort.

Anyone who suggests you change the entire system doesn't have a clue - presenting an unfounded argument to enrich himself at your expense. That is not to say an old boiler does not need to be replaced, but that is not the basis upon which to change to F/H/A or anything else for that matter.

Keep the steam. Find the right serviceman.

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Boilerpro_3

Steamhead's right on.....

You'll probably hear contractors telling you how you can only get steam boilers up to about 80% AFUE and Force air furnaces are rated up near 95%, so you'll save so much money.
First, what Steamhead said is true. The radiant heat created by most steam systems heats more efficiently, allowing you lower thermostat settings than a system that heats with air only. In a concrete home, this is probably a real advantage, since walls tend to be cold in these homes, providing a heavy radiant load which forced air cannot address.
In addition, AFUE greatly favors forced air heating, since it does not take into account all the electricity it takes to operate a forced air system. Most folks I know see their electric bill go up substancially in the winter when they have hot air. Sure some of this is due to shorter days, however, most is due to the large 3/4 to 1 hp blower running in the furnace drawing between 9 to 15 amps. In my area, for a home that has a gas bill that tops out about $200.00 on the coldest month, you can figure about an extra $30.00 in electricity. That another 15% in increased cost and when you add it all up , that 95% AFUE furnace costs about the same to run as a 80% AFUE boiler, btu to btu, since the steam boiler uses virtually no electricity.
Get that steam system running right and you'll have a very economical system, that can give you things like room by room thermostatic control and a 25 to 40 year equipiment life, compared to only 11 years for the top of the line forced air equipment typically installed today.

Boilerpro

Steve Ebels_3

Well Bart..........

You've just heard from 3 of the best in the business and their opinions are unanimous as you can see. I'll just say "ditto" to what they said and leave it at that.

You will find that a properly operating steamer is in the same ballpark as forced air when you look at overall SYSTEM efficiency. Don't be fooled by claims of 90% for a gas furnace and buy one expecting huge savings. They simply aren't there. The best I have ever tested returned a little over 91% combustion efficiency and most test between 87 and 89%. The system efficiency is less than that due to losses from the duct itself, air leaks in your structure caused by moving large volumes of air around in the house, air leaks in the duct system itself etc.

Another point is that retrofitting a duct system into an existing house and not having to compromise said system is nearly impossible. Been there many times, done it with limited success. You will more than likely wind up with uneven heat, too much in one room, not enough in another due to limitations imposed on your duct system. These limitations are unavoidable in nearly all existing homes due the vagaries of construction dictating where duct can be run and what size it can be.

Without seeing your home with my own eyes it's impossible to say that you would or would not run into these problems. Let me just say that I have never installed a duct system in an existing home that was a "piece of cake".

Steamhead

To all those kind words, I'll add

if you live in North Jersey get in touch with Ken. If you live in Northern Illinois Boilerpro is your steam guy, and in upstate Michigan you can't do better than Steve Ebels.

There are plenty of people like us in different parts of the country. Most of us are on the Find a Professional page of this site.

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John Boyer

Bart.

Stick with the steam.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Dean_7

steam cost

I'm just a homeowner who happens to have steam heat also. But I would say listen to these guys. I did when I restored our system a year ago and after tracking natural gas usage for a full year we averaged 60% less in costs through last winter after the restoration than the year before. So I would say steam heat is cost effective.

Boilerpro_3

Thn

> You've just heard from 3 of the best in the

> business and their opinions are unanimous as you

> can see. I'll just say "ditto" to what they said

> and leave it at that.

>

> You will find that a

> properly operating steamer is in the same

> ballpark as forced air when you look at overall

> SYSTEM efficiency. Don't be fooled by claims of

> 90% for a gas furnace and buy one expecting huge

> savings. They simply aren't there. The best I

> have ever tested returned a little over 91%

> combustion efficiency. The system efficiency is

> less than that due to losses from the duct

> itself, air leaks in your structure caused by

> moving large volumes of air around in the house,

> air leaks in the duct system itself etc.

> Another point is that retrofitting a duct system

> into an existing house and not having to

> compromise said system is nearly impossible. Been

> there many times, done it with limited success.

> You will more than likely wind up with uneven

> heat, too much in one room, not enough in another

> due to limitations imposed on your duct system.

> These limitations are unavoidable in nearly all

> existing homes due the vagaries of construction

> dictating where duct can be run and what size it

> can be.

>

> Without seeing your home with my own

> eyes it's impossible to say that you would or

> would not run into these problems. Let me just

> say that I have never installed a duct system in

> an existing home that was a "piece of cake".

Boilerpro_3

Thanks, Steve

to one of the other "Best in the Business"

Boilerpro

Bart_4

So Steam heat is efficient if I replace the boiler?

So it sounds like the utility bills will be similar on steam vs. gas forced air system? It also sounds like I need to replace my boiler? The previous owner got a bid to replace it in 1991 for $21,000. The people that gave him the bid are not the most credible people, but the house is big. I don't know if that is a good ballpark or not? My biggest problem now is finding someone to help. I'm in Oklahoma? Any suggestions?

btw, I did buy dan's book "so we have steam heat" and I have learned quite a bit. But I'm now somewhat of an educated idiot...

Steamhead

What part of OK?

My brother lives in Edmond........

There were some older boilers- mostly round ones- that were not the best on coal and are horribly inefficient on oil or gas. One of my Dead Men's Books says not to expect more than 40% efficiency from such boilers on oil- and that's combustion efficiency, not annual efficiency (AFUE) which would be even lower. If you have a round one I'd replace it now.

If your boiler is square or rectangular, it's more efficient than a round one and can usually be upgraded to extract more heat from the flue gases- this is a job for a knowledgable pro. But even so it won't be as efficient as a new one.

A lot depends on what you have- can you post some pics or tell us the make and model?

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Jeff Lawrence_24

There's no way

To tell what you system needs or dosen't need. The gent that gave you the price may have been a 'steam savant' or (as Dan says a knucklehead.

In my opinion, you need to read up on the topic and Dan's books are one of the best ways to learn. That way, you can tell the difference between brilliance and bullstuff.

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Steve Ebels_3

Rats!

Oklahoma is a little far to drive. Travel charges would be a tad steep. I don't know of anyone in your neck of the woods but someone elae here might.

Try starting a new topic titled "Need steam help in Oklahoma"

Bart_4

Pictures of the boiler

Here's the boiler plate, the boiler, and a radiator. I took some more pictures, but they seem to be a little large?

Thanks!

Bart_4

Steamhead's brother

Hey Steamhead, does your brother happen to know about boiler's? Or are you comming to see him anytime soon? I'm about an hour and a half from Edmond.

Steamhead

Nope- and you're one lucky owner-

he was into sports where I was into tinkering. Very different from me, but he's my brother. I do go out there sometimes, and probably wouldn't have any trouble talking The Lovely Naoko into making the trip.......

Bart, you are lucky enough to have what we call a Vapor system. It's a two-pipe system designed to run at very low pressures- 8 ounces or so. The basic principles are covered in chapter 15 of Lost Art. Basically, instead of having a vent on each radiator, air passes thru the radiator traps, thru the dry (overhead) returns and out thru a centralized venting device. I can't tell from the pic, but there is something in the vertical piping just to the left of the chimney and immediately below what looks like a dark horizontal stripe that might be your central vent.

There were many different manufacturers of Vapor equipment. You should check to see if you can find any names on the original-equipment radiator valves, traps and any hardware in the return piping around the boiler. This will help us identify your system. BTW, we can still get repair parts for most Vapor components.

The Beck boiler is a new one on me. It's not in any reference I have access to, so the manufacturer must have been strictly local or regional. But it looks like it was designed as a gas boiler rather than being converted from coal. Have a tech with a digital combustion analyzer test it for proper combustion. This will also tell you what its combustion efficiency is.

Lastly, get Dan's book "E.D.R." to determine how much radiation you have in square feet EDR. Compare this to the boiler's rating if you can find it- in BTU or EDR. If it turns out the boiler is grossly oversized or will not burn efficiently and with low carbon monoxide levels, replace it. The insulation on the steam pipes is probably asbestos, which in most locales requires removal by a licensed asbestos contractor.

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