Leak in Gas Main

Steam Bunny

to request they recheck their gas main for leaks. An employee responded within the hour & found gas everywhere, both sides of the street, storm sewers, etc. To make a long story short they claim a 140’ of street main needs to be replaced (pin hole leaks) but, because of Katrina, there’s presently a shortage of plastic pipe. They re-excavated where the hedges continue to die and repaired 2 ‘new’ fairly large leaks. Approximately 50’ of hedge are now somewhere between early to late stages of browning/dying. As much of this has occurred in less than 2 months, I took Dale’s advice and soaking them well, hoping it might encourage trapped gases to dissipate from a primarily loose sandy soil. Rain has thoughtfully taken over where I left off.

I’m hoping I can buy, and am encouraging our service department to also buy, a gas sniffer. If 140’ of 107 year old gas line has multiple leaks, the probability it’s happening randomly through the Village seems logical.

I confirmed with the job supervisor- Gas Company maps the leaks they discover, but won’t repair them until a pedestrian phones in a complaint. We plan to follow your advice to see if they’ll replace what dies; 20-25 7 foot hicksii (yews) are involved at no fault of the homeowner- & that excludes what I already dug & replaced.

Thank you for your responses. Without the Wall I'd still be sitting here scratching my head.

Steam Bunny

We had a gas leak at the junction of our main & the street main which has killed about 15’ of evergreen hedge along the tree lawn. The main was replaced about 2 months ago. Does anyone know if I can replace the hedge right away or do I need to do something to get rid of the contamination first? The ground is saturated with a gray crystal which the gas company explained is what they add to the gas to give it an identifying odor.

Leo

Environment

I find this post interesting as the gas people usually say gas is environmentally friendly in the gas vs oil debate. I'm sorry I don't have an answer to your question but I would be after the utility to pay for the needed landscaping.

Leo

[Deleted User]

Steam Bunny as one who worked

for a gas utility for many years I think I can help you. This is not unusual for soil to lose its ability to grow things when gas leaks. In fact for years gas companies would go out and do surveys of areas looking for discoloration in lawns and trees.

It was the policy of my utility to replace all damaged soil and plants when these things occured. It was just good public relations. I would contact the utility for directions.

By the way the soil does need to be replaced and new soil put in as it will not grow anything after this occurs.

Steam Bunny

Thank you Tim!

Although replacing the soil is not what I wanted to hear, what you write rings true. After the gas line was repaired I replaced 4 dead shrubs replacing much but not all of the contaminated soil. Although Yews are generally an easy shrub to transplant, to date they’re not doing well and death is progressing up & down the hedge row in a rather disconcerting manner.

Our village gas line went in in 1898 and I gather repairs have become increasingly necessary. I’ve since learned the village has all but given up replacing trees that met their demise as the result of a natural gas leak.

A Dominion Gas (Cleveland) supervisor told me if the homeowner opts to plant on or near the gas line they do so at their own risk. If anyone knows of any sources of information or articles that might review long term soil contamination in greater depth I and our village would be deeply appreciative. I can accept having to replace our own shrubs but if the soil can’t recover in a timely manner perhaps removal/replacement should be on their nickel.

Uni R

NG BBQ - Tim?

What a NG leak will do to soil comes as a bit of a surprise. How safe is it to BBQ using NG over the long haul?

[Deleted User]

I assume you are

talking about an underground line to the BBQ. Truth any gas line underground is subject to corrosion over time. If the gas leaks it will be like any other gas leak and should be repaired immediately. Long term gas leakage is what destroys soil.

Dale

Vegitation indicators

As Timmie said the old way to do a main leak survey was to drive and look for dying plants, and the circular pattern of the leak. And, for the history buffs the first commercial leak survey/detection company, still in business, Heath, was started by a tree surgeon in the Boston area who noticed the effect of gas leaks on trees. As to what will work, the clean natural gas dries the soil and starves the plants of moisture. I say clean because the old gas had carbo seal and other oils in the main and is a greater contaminant. If the leak goes on long enough a characteristic white mold forms. What we do is to tell customers to heavily water lawn or bushes or trees, areation may be needed depending on soil type. The extra watering usually fixes the problem. If the plants have been weakened enough for insects or disease then replacement is in order. And, if that is done the soil should be replaced as well. Gas leaks are not normal and the utility should pay for the plants. Federal law requires that the mains must be leak surveyed at least every 3 years so that should be the max time a leak can happen and remain undetected. A tee leak at the main can be very dangerous, ask the Minneapolis MN. utility, so the safety concern is the key.

Uni R

Thanks Tim - Not quite...

I'm talking about the fact that whatever it is in the gas that destroys the soil is also burning a few inches underneath my steak. Are there long term ramifications for people using NG because they are consuming those toxins?

[Deleted User]

I have been using

a natural gas BBQ for over 40 years now on NG and other than some strange behaviour from time to time I am fine. The gas actually absorbs all the moisture and in some cases causes an over abundance of nitrogen which over fertilizes and burns the soil.

Uni R

Thanks Tim

Your explanation was comforting... ;-)

jerry scharf_3

thanks for the great description

All good new stuff for me.

jerry

Edward A. (Ed) Carery

More of a problem than your trees.

I am astounded that the gas company would admit that they have numerous leaks in a main, but then say that they are not going to repair it immediately.

The gas presently released obviously is adequate to damage your shrubs. If the leaks become large enough, the gas released underground can travel and follow the pipes underground, into near by homes.

I have personally seen events whereby gas follow a water main into a building that did not even have gas, resulting in an explosion that reduced the building to rubble. The building was several offices in a small strip mall type commercial building.

The odorant in Natural Gas is Mercaptan. However, if gas travels underground through the soil for any appreciable distance, the Mercaptan can be scrubbed (filtered out) from the gas by the soil to an extent that the gas entering the home may be nearly odorless.

If I were you I would insist in writing that the leaking gas main be replaced immediately. I would document it carefully, and possibly call in the local Public Utility Commission, to monitor what the gas company is doing to correct the problem.

I think that you and your neighbors should also get some type of gas detector in your homes. Something that will detect the gas itself, even if there is no odorant present.

Good luck,

Ed

Edward A. (Ed) Carery

Follow up

Regarding the loss of odorant in an underground gas leak:

Read the "Natural Gas Odorant Hazzard Information" at the bottom of the page on the link below.

http://www.oxy.com/oxychem/Products/odorants/nat_gas_odorants.htm#

Ed

John S.

that's nothing...

My mother smelled gas on her street and DTE told her that unless it was inside or just around the perimeter of the home, they do not consider it an emergency. They admitted that there are hundreds or thousands of leaks in and around metro Detroit and that there's a 4 month backlog for fixing them.

Makes me feel real safe.

IMHO around here the Public Utility Commission and the gas company are in bed together.

Steam Bunny

Hi Ed,

Unlike John’s Mother’s situation, they’ve been here and dug 3 times in the same place- so far. Every time they dig to patch, it seems new leaks appear, perhaps due to stress from a not too gentle backhoe. Makes me wonder if it wouldn’t be a bit more efficient to replace such sections if the pipe’s beyond its projected life expectancy. They’re certainly quick to insist the homeowner replace his own line.

In the meantime, I’ve borrowed a sniffer and immediately checked basement & line outside the house as per your suggestion. Got no reading, but then wonder if it might not be more reliable to do the outside when the ground is a bit drier.

I’m attempting to collect as much information as possible, to eventually help our Village & its residents become more aware/proactive, to whatever extent possible. Thus far I’ve not found much in the way of facts, and the odorant warning you shared is an excellant eye opener!

Thank you.

Unknown

Gas Utilities

give classifications to gas leaks depending on there severity and the possibility of them getting into dwellings. In the past gas companies really worked hard to control and contain gas leakage. It does affect there insurance rates (lost gas clauses, or commonly called unaccounted gas loss) so they want to keep insurance rates low. In recent years they have relaxed their policy and put leaks on a work schedule and then monitor the severity with on the road surveys. Most of the time they are able to keep a good handle on these things. Most of the leaking gas in these cases is corrosion pitting of the steel gas lines used years ago. In some large inner cities it may be joint leaks on older cast iron systems. Most of those are not a present danger.

I do not agree with some of the recent policies of gas companies concerning leaks but understand ther motivation which is being able to schedule work on a non overtime basis versus emergency service.

I do know that constant pressure from the public can sometimes push the replacement of old mains to the top of the priority list.