poor man's quik trak??

Mad Dog_2

very economical but will get the job done. With the money we saved on the manufactured panels, Jimmy and I were able to give them condensing equipment. Mad Dog

Royboy

wondering what you think of this approach????

I'm doing a radiant floor in a 600 sf addition. Builder has planned an above-sub-floor installation and has 3/4" in height available for the heating layer. His thought was to site rip 3/4" plywood strips to lay between stapled down tubing runs. Finish floor will be a 9/16" floating bamboo floor. It seems like the Quick-Trak and other manufactured above-subfloor products probably won't fit in the budget.

I'm concerned about heat striping without some means of more assertively spreading the heat around. Thinking of low cost ways of doing that, I'm wondering about putting a layer of aluminum flashing stock down on top of the subfloor and beneath the tubing and plywood strips. I realize that the direct contact with the tubing will be minimal but I would expect it would still help spread the heat.

I expect at least some "if you can't do it right, don't do it" advice. Wondering if, beyond that, this kind of approach seems like it has any potential? Or is it a bad idea? What might be a good spacing be for the tubing? 8"? (I am thinking of 3/8" (ID) tube, in order to leave height for staples in the assembly.)

Any other lower-cost ways to consider?

The floors are structural insulated panels (SIPS), so a beneath subfloor system isn't possible.

Thanks - Roy

Wayco Wayne_2

Looks great MD

Here's a picture of a job we did over a year ago. We used joist Trak Plates on top and filled in between with sleepers. Our Heat Load calcs said we needed the extra capacity that the plates provide. Worked well last Winter. WW

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Royboy

is that foil

from the grocery store or something more exotic?

8" OC?

what did you infill with?

and finally, what kind of floor cover and did it heat-stripe?

thanks - Roy

hr

The Watts Subray

system uses foil tape in the grooves, but they also offer a flashing thickness aluminum for on top.

Think I would at least use the flashing aluminum. The thickness of the aluminum helps hold, and dissapate the heat better. This is what Radiant Engineerings testing has found and the advantage of extruded over flashing plates.

The wood layer over the aluminum does tend to spread the heat more evenly, and less noticiable striping.

I have seen this difference with the infared camera also.

hot rod

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Royboy

thickness of quik trak?

Wayne - did the thickness of the joist trak plates create any problems with the overlapping sleepers?

Can't quite tell in your picture, but did you do anything conscious in terms of fastening to allow one side of the plates to be free to move under the plywood?

Thanks - Roy

Mad Dog_2

Thanks Wayne

Yes 8" o.c. Industrial-thickness foil. We've done close to a dozen of these...never a problem with striping. Regular oak. Mad Dog

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Royboy

thanks Mad Dog

I'm not familiar with industrial-thickness foil. who sells it and for what uses? so I can track it down if needed.

Roy

Mad Dog_2

Not sure what industry uses it

got a bunch from a friend. I will look in to it though. Mad Dog

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[Deleted User]

Laminate flooring on top of poor man's radiant

Thinking about installing laminate flooring on top of a site built system. Is there any problem w/ the thin foam pad hindering heat flow or anything else?
While on the subject, I've heard that laminate flooring is OK to use in wet locations such as bath, kitchen & entry.
The joints must be sealed w/ a special glue during installation. Any comments or experience w/ this?
Thanks

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The thin foam pad will definitely have some insulative value, but likely not much. Perhaps you can check with the manufacturer.

I installed an Armstrong laminate floor product behind my commercial bar about 6 years ago. (This was against the instructions as it said, "non-commercial, poorly suited to wet locations like baths, but OK for kitchens".) Did use their "special" glue.

Despite constant abuse, lots of spills that often sit for hours and frequent wet mopping (all no-nos), it has held up amazingly well. The only problem area is by a cooler condensate drain that constantly "sweats". The floor has swelled considerably in a small area. Guess I should insulate the condensate pipe...

james patrick

Mad Dog?

What do you think of putting 4" Alum. flashing on top of your sleepers to spread the heat under that portion of wood floor?

DIYPeter

Foil

I used baking foil from a local restaurant supply house. Thicker than I've found in grocery stores, and 18" wide x 1000' 60 bucks. I rolled it out on the subfloor (wear shades!) then screwed down 1/2" sleepers, mastic in the grooves and on top for the Ditra, then mastic and 1/2" tiles. Works great. Also, I'm using the foil for the old house parts between joists covering the Pex.Old maple flooring. No striping, and easy to work with, what with the old nails and other obstructions. I know the tracks are more efficient, and would use them in a new house, but... this 100 year old farmahouse has never had central heat, and I'm lovin' it.

Royboy

foam pad

the builder on this job tells me that he thinks there is one type of foam pad that is intended for use with radiant floor systems - presumably has less insulating value. I've asked him for details on this and will pass them on when I get them.

Roy

hr

I remember a Wilsonart laminate

flooring display at the NHBA show 6 or so years ago. They had an old clawfoot tub display over flowing onto their laminets for 4 days straight! Pretty true to life example of what can happen

It was a bathroom specfic product, and looked more like a formica type build up.

I'm not sure how the subfloor below would handle this much moisture?

hot rod

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Andrew Hagen (ALH)

U Fin

Aluminum foil is not doing much more than looking shiny during the installation. Contact with the tube is very important. Is the tape Watts puts between the sleepers more than just aluminum duct tape? What does the steel/aluminum piece they recommend putting over the tube do? I remember some talk of sheet metal they recommend to cover the tube. What I'm getting at is that the foil is unnecessary.

I like the Joist Trak installation, Wayne. ThermoFin-U is designed for exactly that application. Raupanel is also a good product from a heat transfer standpoint. The plywood return bends are slightly thicker than the sleepers which accounts for the .050 thickness of the fin.

-Andrew

Ted_8

Output

What is the calculated out per square foot? How did you arrive at the propoer supply water temperatures?

Mad Dog_2

Not Necessary

Mementote! (note well, Latin) This is Poor Man's radiant! Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

More than suffices............................

You tell me. It works....nicely I might add. Mad Dog

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ScottMP

Matt

When you add on the cost of the cement pour and lowering the floor to accept the extra hieght ... does it really add up to that much savings ??

Or is that a photo of a dry system and the carpenters will add in the sleepers ? If so what is the cost to have them rip all the wood ?

Scott

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Mad Dog_2

Right on the second account Scott

As long as they know about it before it gets framed, it is just as easy. Ripping sleepers? All I knows is this...plumbers cost more than carpenters. We gave them a price for quik trak and a price with this set up. Big savings. Mad Dog

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Unknown

You'll have a big difference in output/water temps if you use actual lightweight flashing plates (with PEX-AL-PEX) stapled down to the infill, than you would with just flashing over the top. Price increase should be reasonable, and will still be far cheaper than prefabs.

Don't waste your time with reflective "foil" or tape underneath. If the tubing is sitting on it, it does just about nothing.

Nron_13

heat link also makes a dry install method for floor overlay systems using heat transfer plates and 3/4 plywood with return bends and supports made from plastic mayb looking at useing this on afew different jobs

harvey

foil rolls

I have used foil from TEK supply (try teksupply.com or google) I think it comes in 4' & 8' rolls. we used it instead of the foil tape that Sub-ray wants you to use. Sprayed duct liner glue on floor and rolled it out