Hey Dan and the Boys

Unknown

always taught "there are two sides to every story" , but in this thread (so far) there seem to be four. Well-said by everyone! <BR><BR>Dave

Unknown

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Al Letellier_9

attitude

I tend to agree with you, David, that at times some requests for information receive some weird, and sometimes sarcastic responses. It's only a few now and then but doesn't speak well for this site or the industry as a whole. Some homeowners or DIY'ers ask honest questions or seek simple answers to their questions and we should give them that and nothing else. Good honest teasing and verbal horseplay is OK and sometimes fun when we're together over coffee or on a jobsite, but we should strive to show professionalism when dealing with the public....at all times. I have responded,as I'm sure many others have, to simple questions that get wonderful personal e-mail responses and a long time e-mail relationship with some really nice people. Just think twice about how to respond and ask yourself if that's what you would want for an answer if you were asking it.

Perry_3

I agree -- this is not currently a site to send most homeowners

As a homeowner: Dan runs a wonderful site and their are a bunch of wonderful people here. As such it is a community.

The problem is that its structure is not set up to actually service most simple questions without inviting a lot of other things...

In a community you have a grade - high school for basic education, a technical college for advanced technical education in a subject - and a Major College for theoretical education.

You also have venues to discuss public policy, as well as recreational facilities to just shoot the breeze with each other.

Unfortunately, the way this forum is structured all of those funtions occur in one place.

I also participate in another forum. They have a section for discussing consumer questions and educations. They have a section for shooting the breeze on almost any subject. They have a section for discussing issues arround the world (political - public policy). They have a section with Fequenetly Asked Questions - and the best responses to those questions, and several more. The result is that a consumer can either start in the right forum section or be directed to the right one (in fact - the forum moderator will move a post from one section to the right section with a link in the initial section) - and get their questoins answered without direct exposure to the other sections.

Should Heating Help change to that forum structure - or another. Not sure. But if it remains in its current format I think it should be at least relabled as to what it is.

I also think you would kill a large part of what makes it a success by eliminating all but the technical Q&A part of this forum.

Perry

Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh

Don't change a thing!

This site is an extremely valuable tool for those of us who work at this profession. There have been numerous times I have pondered a problem only to come to this site, do a quick "search" and have found diverse commentary as to the soulutions available. This site is basically professionals talking to professionals about the varied aspects of this trade. While homeowners and others have always been welcome to post and or just read along as they see fit, I'm not certain that they would take offense to the banter that occurs between the regulars here. I welcome the homeowner contingent here because they will in time become very well informed about our industry, and what it is that makes the true professional here so much different than the "Joe Bagodonuts" types we all run into much to frequently in this trade. When ever a room full of egos get together, there will no doubt be issues, but Dan has always been fair about things here, and the offensive posts are quickly dispatched. To segregate discussion into different areas will destroy the "Wall" as we all know it, and that must never happen!

Joe_30

The Wall is fine.

The Wall is fine. Relax. It's Springtime.
Sure, some of you have "tiffs" as a fine old Irish judge before whom I would appear would call them. But you sort it out, and the varied views are great.
Likewise, most homeowners are fairly treated and if not a defender usually steps forward.
I will never forget the story, found here, of the no-heat problem of the wife of the soldier in Iraq. She wrote here , and a pro headed right to her place , for free. I think I recall she responded, "Who are you guys!" Hmm, "Who was that masked man?"

Ken_40

Yeah! Let's sanitize it...!

Totally and completely. Let's start now.

Let's not have any conflicting dialogs, let's not show our passion, lets not needle each other, let's not debate the tough topics, lets definitely stay away from politics, religion, flat rate, T&M, PEX vs. copper, global warming, messages of salvation, American vs. Euro manufacturers, leaking fittings, using water heaters as boilers, codes, dumb inspectors, even dumber codes, great job photos, terible job photos, the price of anything, donations to worthy or unworthy causes, announcements of deaths in our families...

Let's never mention drinking, CO poisonings, tragedies that make the news, Al Gore, George Bush, global warming, the war in Iraq, Detroit's sports nightmare, The Mets, inventory, our trucks, dumb techs, geniuses that can put a 3' boiler in a 2' hole, satan, converting steam boilers to water, losing weight, Christmas, Jews, Hari-Krishna's, Jim Jones, Kool Aid, PVC, Home Depot, P&M magazine, electric boilers, gas vs. oil, mod-cons vs. iron, ProPress leaks, plumbers pretending to be heating contractors, scorched air as even remotely viable, the cost of gas, taxes in Denmark, old pictures of Wetstock(s), Steamhead and Springstein, Monica Lewinsky, or anything else for that matter, that might be controversial...

Since everyone of those topics has resulted in someone, at some time being rude, obnoxious, passionate, debated, angry, mis-informed, lost in space, mis-understood, cranky, un-American, pro-American, brilliant, wise, informative, or loathed, let's close up shop and let the homeowners talk to each other. Right. And when pigs can whistle...

Do you have any idea how many hits this place gets, BECAUSE of THIS framework, the rapid responses, the off-the-wall posts - all of them? The ones you happen to like - as well as the ones you would now condemn?

There are cycles here, just like tides. Some weeks you get a 400 post thread. Some weeks, a 40-post thread is big.

You don't want to even think about change. When Dan sees it get ugly, and he rarely does, he does what he needs to do. I doubt very much if the near sterile changes you wish for will ever take place.

Nor should they.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Couldn't agree more that the name calling is utterly counter-productive, but fortunately it doesn't seem to happen too often unless things get too far away from the general topic of "Heating Help".

Some bickering is inevitable when concerned, passionate people discuss? debate? present? their opinions? observations? concerns? preferences? regarding a general topic--[hydronic] Heating Help--with an almost infitite variety of methods to reasonably achieve a variety of goals--comfort? efficiency? response?--ALL of which can be "the most important" in the mind of an occupant!

Despite these problems I see a LOT OF HEATING HELP occurring here. Help to homeowners--help to professionals and even help to DIYers.

Simple and specific questions regarding simple and specific problems usually receive specific answers regardless of how simple the fix...

General questions involving anything along the line of "what's best" have no definitive answer. It all depends...

As long as they take the time to learn the vernacular, I'm certain that many potential customers have learned MUCH here--mainly via observation and searching. The common questions have been asked over and over with a great variety of "answers".

Being a renovation/restoration contractor and hardcore DIYer I read, studied and lurked here for months all the while studying and measuring my system before I ever got up the nerve to post the question, "Where's the Damage from Condensation?" The replies (both public and private) have keep me hooked ever since. "You ask the right questions."

Unknown

Love Ya Ken,,

I just KNEW, this would get ya goin! LOL!

Dave(The Lad)

MW_2

Hey Joe, You could not have said it better. With respect to your comment about the Soldier's Wife, we should never forget that some of our comrades have it much worse than us. As a heating professional and a soldier, I thank you for recognizing that more important problems persist. Imagine not being home for the birth of your first child- differences of opinions about heating related topics are surely minuscule in relation. Thanks again. SSG MW

Ken_40

Thank you

Lad.

I just love the pompousness, the self-righteousness and "is it safe to go in the water yet" mentality of the bystanders who posted above.

They're the kind of guys you might get stuck going out to lunch with - and they'd ask the waiter for separate checks.

I'm sure you know the type.

Steve Ebels_3

AMEN!

A thousand times AMEN!

The different viewpoints, the brawls, varying intellectual capability, the good news and the bad, the jabs and the hugs......all of those things make this place what it is, a family. If someone tells me that a family exists that never has a blowup, I'll call that person a liar to to their face.

Don't change one iota about this place. I like it....I like it a lot!

Murph'_5

Seperate Checks ?????

I could have swore there were four shrimps on my plate before I went for a refill..........





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Unknown

Sleep warm and dry...

Noel

Ken_40

You...

Got it Murph.

They'd also be the ones to calculate the tip BEFORE tax.

Ken_40

NAME STOLEN!

Not that I care all that much, but many of the recent posts attributed to me in the last few days, WERE NOT MINE!

The real Ken

Al Corelli_2

Umm......

But, I LIKE Kool Aid!



Well said, Ken.

Al Corelli
NY

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