If I wasn't using \"X\" I'd be using \"Y\"

Brian

The first Mod/Con I used was the Trinity's when they first came out.After a few years I became frustrated with the glitches in the design of the boiler.I then decided to start looking for an alternative.I started hearing and reading about the GB-142.I was intrigued by the fact that even though it was new to North America it had been in Europe for years.So I switched and have been very happy with it.
So here's my question.What is your boiler of choice? But,if you weren't using that manufacturer who would you use.
Let me start.
If I wasn't using the GB-142,I'd be using the Prestige.

Thanks
Dobber

Ken_40

Munchkin

Hands down.

heatboy

For years.............

..........I resisted jumping on the condensing bandwagon. When I first went to ISH and saw the Vitodens (1999) and was told it would arrive here someday I decided to wait. As it turns out, I'm glad I did. For me, there is no other.

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[Deleted User]

We carry...

V, W, X Y and Z. Why limit yourself to one brand. It kinds of limits your ability to meet market demand. Not everyone drives the best cars.

Instead of presenting the product line in good, better and best, present it in the reverse order, best, better and good. Let the consumer drive the bus. Don't presume that you know what they can afford. It's a lot tougher to up sell than down sell...and their decision may suprise you.

ME

Paul Pollets

Walmart of Boilers

I'm not sure the market needs to be catered to by having 5 different boiler types. Overchoice, in my opinion.. and confusing to homeowners.

I use the Vitodens because of its design, reliability and ease of service. My market is also different than others,
and has proven to be not as concerned with "first cost" and competitive pricing.

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Brian

Good,Better, Best

> I'm not sure the market needs to be catered to by

> having 5 different boiler types. Overchoice, in

> my opinion.. and confusing to homeowners.

>

> I

> use the Vitodens because of its design,

> reliability and ease of service. My market is

> also different than others, and has proven to

> be not as concerned with "first cost" and

> competitive pricing.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 104&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Mark,

Brian

Good Better Best.

> I'm not sure the market needs to be catered to by

> having 5 different boiler types. Overchoice, in

> my opinion.. and confusing to homeowners.

>

> I

> use the Vitodens because of its design,

> reliability and ease of service. My market is

> also different than others, and has proven to

> be not as concerned with "first cost" and

> competitive pricing.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 104&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Dobber

J.C.A._3

M.E. Speaks the truth !

I HIGHLY agree with his technique.

It's not so much of a game that way, and the customer gets CHOICES. What more could THEY ask for?

Sales isn't my strongest point, and I'll openly admit it....I'm the guy that can make things work, one way or another...but I'd much rather make them work with what I've done VS. what someone else sold them that didn't. It's good business. Capise? Chris

Brian

Good Better Best

The cost of the boiler in a new construction job is only a small part of the cost of the project.Unless you're talking about a out of a box price why give the customers so many choices?I like to keep service parts on hand, so I don't want parts for 4 or 5 different boilers.Also Paul & hb,If Viessmann didn't produce a mod/con who would you use?

Thanks Dobber

Tim Doran_4

One or two brands

I limit myself to one or two brands. I stock every repair part for everything that I install because the wholesalers and reps don't, and I don't want more money sitting on the shelf than need be. It's also a comfort level thing. I know the products that I install inside and out and can service them in my sleep. My hard drive is pretty limited so why try to jam more into it than I need. I also want my installations to be as consistent as possible so that it is easy to bring people on board and get them up to speed quickly. I feel that consistent, repeatable, and uniform system designs lead to high quality instalations, fewer problems and call backs, and long term sustainability. Sort of like to ProPanel story, eh?

Tim D.

Paul Pollets

Back to sales...

Chris, offering more than 2 choices in the sales process can result in loosing the sale. Trying to explain the features and benefits of 3 different appliances takes too long, and makes the prospective customer glassy-eyed.

A prospect who deals with my company often knows the appliances we specialize in, and why. Customers have faith in my experience and selection of product. I make sure they know the difference in the first phone call, and don't waste time trying to sell what doesn't work for me or my business.

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Paul Pollets

Thanks, Tim

My feelings as well....

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Tim Doran_4

Sales & Brands

If your using a manufacturers recognition or reputation to to help close sales you may be in for a surprise. Just look at the changes at my old employer. I sell my own brand which is based on my abilities, reputation, ethics, and personal commitment. The products that I offer are only a small part of the story. For the most part customers want a warm, comfortable home with a system that is as reliable and efficient as possible. I they believe that I can do that better than the next guy it does not matter what products I offer and I really don't need a large variety to work with.

Tim D.

Paul Pollets

Boilers vs Pex

PEX piping is almost a commodity, though some say it has been for the past 5 years. Euro boilers are not a commodity, at least for the foreseable future.

I would be surprised if the German boiler manufacturer took a brand hit because of its "re-organization".

A system by Tim, I'm sure would be a thing of beauty, and would use better components.

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Steve Ebels_3

So many boilers, so little time

> The first Mod/Con I used was the Trinity's when

> they first came out.After a few years I became

> frustrated with the glitches in the design of the

> boiler.I then decided to start looking for an

> alternative.I started hearing and reading about

> the GB-142.I was intrigued by the fact that even

> though it was new to North America it had been in

> Europe for years.So I switched and have been very

> happy with it. So here's my question.What is

> your boiler of choice? But,if you weren't using

> that manufacturer who would you use. Let me

> start. If I wasn't using the GB-142,I'd be

> using the Prestige.

>

> Thanks Dobber

Steve Ebels_3

So many boilers, so little time

The market will continue to become more and more saturated with different brands of M/C boilers as all the manufacturers hop on the condensing bandwagon. Fuel prices, as we are all painfully aware are on the way up again with no hurricanes, an average to mild winter, and average demand so what's not to like about condensing boilers from a manufacturers standpoint? The genre' will soon own nearly all of the hot water market IMHO.

So back to the question. From my standpoint, reliability and ease of service trump nearly anything else, price included. The only two that are available within 25 miles of me are the Munchkin and Lochinvar Knight and I'm not real tickled with the HX design of either. (How do you thoroughly clean the back half of the HX?) Not to say that they don't perform well but IMHO there are better designs. Aluminum HX's don't turn my knobs so that leaves me with the following brands.

The Vitodens is my first choice for too many reasons to list. Suffice to say that I have had no mechanical breakdowns with the Vito. None. A few electrical in nature which were suspected to be related to supply voltage problems and a couple that just failed and required a new board, but not one single mechanical piece that has broken or required replacement so far.

I really like the looks of the HX on the Prestige and I'm making that my "go to" boiler for a middle of the road price point. Although I haven't had the opportunity to install one yet, the control looks to be very adaptable and will work with nearly any type system. A distributor about 60 miles from me just picked up the line so I;m sure I'll be installing one or more this summer.

The base boiler of choice is the Knight. The ones I have out in the field seem to be holding up with no issues and I prefer a HX that's welded as opposed to being held together with silicone.

heatboy

Not sure................

.......what I would offer. The Vitodens has kind of spoiled me. I have had my hands on a few other models, but I am left unimpressed. Crown's Bimini is worth a look, but I haven't seen one running, other than down at the factory a few months ago. The drawback to the Bimini, with me anyway, is the aluminum HX.

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Ken_40

Tim,

Let me counter with this:

If you are not sentivie to the customer's brand recognition, you may be in for an even bigger surprise!

One of the first questions I ask is, "Is there any particular brand boiler you may prefer"? Many times it will be a brand someone else before you, mentioned and lauded. Occassionally it will be the brand they already have that lasted 30+ years and they KNOW the brand quality by inference and their own experience.

My next question is, "Why do you mention that particular brand/model"? If the answer is weak without commitment, I dismiss as info fed by my predecessor and the result of a fast glance, not deeply pondered conviction. If however it is the latter, you better be preapred to install that boiler, unless of course you have a true trump card in your pocket (like the neighbor they adore across the street wanted an XYZ boiler, might I give you an estimate for each?

Brand recognition is a fact. How you deal with it is the art we all so love to engage...

Joe@buderus_2

Product selection

If I may make a comment. Which ever brand/brands you choose to offer, learn the product, take advantage of training, obtain as much information that you can. I hear many times "your boiler is my boiler of choice, been for years - oh no I haven't had time to go to training. No I don't have a manual of my own to refer to, etc...". Many of the mentioned manufactures offer training, manuals etc..., how many take advantage of the offerings?

Steve Ebels_3

As usual from you Joe

Your comments are astute and to the point

Thanks

Tim Doran_4

Products or services??

I find that people, at least in my market, are most concerned with service and that the products are of little concern. Products with bad reputations are mentioned far more often that products with good reputations. Many times I have been stopped in the middle of my pitch by a client who then says,"I wouldn't know an x from a y and really don't care. Your the guy that has too take care of it so just get it done". Clients come to me based on my reputation for doing good work and offering good service not because I install a certain products.

Tim D.