Just don't get it-Boilers

Debbie_2

I live in the chicago land area. I looked on the find a pro and there were two. One really far Amboy, Il. If you could give me some names I would be really grateful!

Debbie_2

condensing vs. non condensing boilers

I know everyone is extremely knowledgeable about boilers on this web site and I don't want to ask questions that i should know the answers to. I have done my "homework" by reading but I just don't get it! Brad White responded to my question(s) earlier. Maybe he or someone else could elaborate further?
We have hot water baseboard heat and a cast iron boiler. We would like to replace it with a more energy efficient furnace. Since the furnace is 43 years old that shouldn't be too difficult! This is a synopsis of what I think I have read:
High efficiency modualting condensing furnaces work best with lower water return temperatures. Since we have hot water base board heat the temperature should be 160 degrees for adequate heating. Does this mean anyone with hot water baseboard should not get a condensing boiler? When it is not that cold out you don't need to run the boiler that hot. What happens though when it is cold?
If we went with a less efficient boiler we should not go too efficient because of problem's with condensation damaging the boiler. What is the cutoff point for efficiency, 84%? What happens if you go to an 88% boiler like a burnham revolution? Their literature says they have a drain and no worry of damage from condensation. You should buy an extended warranty for high efficency furnaces their life expectancy is much less than a cast iron boiler. Our chimmney will most likely need a liner unless the boiler will have its own venting. Could someone please address these questions and clarify any misconceptions I have? We have had several contractors to our home but they are all "generalists" and just dabble in boilers. They really don't seem very interested in explaining anything. Sorry so lengthy, but this is a lot of money and we want to make the right choices.
Thank you, Debbie

Tony_23

First ?

Have you cked Find A Pro on this site ?

I have bbd systems designed and operating from 120-150 design temps, so your 160 is misinformation. I also have quite a few retrofits that were designed for 180 running on ODR w/ a mod/con. Frequently, I back off the top end temp because 180 isn't needed.

A professional is the most sure way of maximizing your dollars.

A.J.

To condense or not to condense that is the ?

Debbie just becuase you have a high temp. system don't short change your self on efficency.Condensing boiler would be better in any type of system however, when it comes to getting the heat into the water on a high temp. system their efficency drops a little.
You had mentioned the MPO by Burnham so a chimney liner is a must have.
Debbie you also talked about lower water temp. I can only assume you were talking about reseting the water temp. by outdoor reset. Conservatively speaking it will save you 15% on your fuel costs.Every time the burner is running you are spending monies.

Debbie_2

Tony, I live in the chicago land area. There were only 2 people advertised and one of them was from Amboy. Quite a ways from us. I would gladly welcome any names.
Debbie

Debbie_2

AJ- then it is not a concern with hot water base board heat to have a condensing furnace?

jim lockard

Let me try ?

Debbie--1st you can connect a condensing hi efficiency to a hot water baseboard system. 2nd-- There will be days when 160 degree plus water is not required to heat your home, condensing boilers through the use of electronic controls measure the outside air temperature and the inside air temperature and adjust the system water temperture for your comfort. 3rd--- On the really cold days the electronic controls will adjust the water temperature hotter to properly heat your home. 4th-- On a standard cast iron boiler low water temperatures at the boiler will cause problems=true. There are controls that can mix and lower system water temperatures once the water leaves the boiler all the while maintaining high temperature water at the boiler. 5th--The cutoff point for efficienty most condensing boilers are 90%+ on efficienty. 6th--Condensing boiler have there own venting systems be it PVC pipe or special stainless steel pipe designed for low temperature exhaust. The by product of proper combustion is CO2 and water vapor when you squeeze the heat out of the exhaust system you need to drain the water=condensate so to the basement drain or thru a pump to a drain place it must go. Hope I could help Best Wishes J.lockard

Uni R_3

Debbie...

The controls on any half decent modulating condensing boiler will allow you to maximize the comfort of your HWBB. How much is natural gas where you live and how much is oil?

Debbie_2

UNI R-
Most is natural gas. I don't know of anyone in the area that uses oil. The boilers we are considering are Buderus, Weil-Mcclain , Lochinvar.

Unknown

whereabout in Chicagoland?

Where are you located? As I'm in west surburb of Chicago....

Weezbo

Debbie, if you like to see some clearer pictures...

check out some of the UK sites..look up SEBUK ratings...

you can see many new boilers that are not available in America some are quite remarkable in that 100 % efficient is not the highest they go.

for the most part, instead of hooking up a boiler and when it breaks down..uh oh! time to fix it crosses the mind..there are more interventions in a boilers life:) not all condensing boilers are created equal, and there are cases of recalls on many models and from many manufacturers...not to worry though, because if someone doesnt make a mistake from time to time ...they probably aren't doing much...because some variable speed fans did not work quite like they had banked upon it tweaked some of the enthusiasm here and there along the way. many people are big on GSHP s ... one of the real sharp workers is over in Germany right now, he said in a post the other day that the projection is that this coming year the industry is looking at selling 50,000 + units this is something that America might burn a little more daylight at too in the coming years....everyone has mentioned the temps that the modulating condensing boilers can function and function well to provide efficient heat...it may surprise you that many of the people here know how to maintain a boiler or two, this means instead of neglecting the appliance we are able to run them and know when to clean and tune them up. ...

the only minor technicality is that the new owners often tend to think that suddenly they are way more qualified to determine when that might be.... i have never asked any of them as to just how this type of immediate clairvoyance and trans configuration of the experience took place...it might be an osmosis thing..i m not too sure.

in this century,you would probably best off considering a boiler and system that can work at lowest temps...convectors can distribute some heat at much lower temps than you may have been led to believe. however, in some ways the fine points of radiant are more than just how efficient the heating system is operating . some of it has to do with how much energy is expended in the manufacturing and compiling of the materials of which they are comprised. someone mentioned Co2 ...look up some of the studies done on the co co2 that is produced in simply getting the finished appliance to your door step.

Debbie_2

We live in orland park.

Mark Hunt

Debbie


I have hundreds of systems just like yours installed. HWBB with a modulating/condensing boiler and outdoor reset.

In every instance, our customers report 30% to 35% reductions in their fuel usage. Some have seen 45% reductions.

Your baseboard will still heat the house with 100° water. Yesterday afternoon I was at a home where we installed a Buderus GB142 with the AM10 controller. Outdoor temp was 19° and the boiler was producing 119° water. The house was 68°.

Hope this helps.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Debbie_2

Thanks Mark it does. Why is it that the east coast has a so many radiant heat specialists? Old houses?

Unknown

A note on efficiency ratings

If you look at the European websites you may sometimes note efficiencies of over 100% stated for boilers. This is due to how they are rated over there compared to in the USA.

European ratings do not include the latent heat of condensation. If a European boiler transfers 100% of the combustion heat to the water without condensing, it is considered 100% efficient. If it does condense, the efficiency will be higher than 100% because the added heat gained by condensation is considered additional, and is added on top of the 100% If you look at Viessmans European site, they will say that a Vitodens has an efficiency of up to 109%, the extra 9% being gained by condensation.

In the USA, the AFUE rating INCLUDES the latent heat of condensation in the 100% rating. A 100% efficient European rated boiler that does not condense, might have only a 90% AFUE. No AFUE rated boiler can have a rating of over 90% without condensing precisely because it does not capture the remaining 10% latent heat assumed in the AFUE.

John L

We

are located in Alsip, 20+ years in biz, love the mod/cons.
you can e-mail me.
John L.