Better keep an eye on your techs

mtfallsmikey

What a thread!..I don't do any "side work" at all because of the blunt fact that working part time in my biz wouldn't pay enough to cover the liability premimums! and I make very good money working for The Man. I still have all of my licenses,trade cert's,etc. All I would need to do is get a truck, inventory, add some tools, and I'm back!. Always like to keep my options open. Also, look at the thread about side work...ties in nicely with this one.

John R. Hall

They might be advertising on this new website

New Website Matches Up Skilled Tradespeople with Homeowners and Businesses That Need Smaller 'Side Jobs' Done

By giving skilled tradespeople a place to advertise, sidejobtrader.com puts an end to the age-old adage of not being able to find someone to do needed work.

Gilbert, AZ (PRWeb) February 20, 2007 -- All over the United States, the same story plays out again and again: someone needs a job done -- usually a small job -- and can't find anyone to do it. From fixing a leaky faucet to repairing an air conditioner motor, it sometimes seems impossible to find someone knowledgeable to do these kinds of "side jobs."

That's exactly what Paul A. Magruder was thinking when he started "Side Job Trader," a nationwide, searchable advertising website where skilled tradespeople who do work "on the side" can list their services. This allows a person who needs work done to find someone local who is ready, willing, and able.

"The simple fact is, it's sometimes very tough to get a small job done," says Magruder. "The plumber you see in the yellow pages wants to install an entire bathroom, not fix one leaky pipe."

Homeowner Mark Johnson agrees. "I just wanted someone to come by and look at my air conditioner. The big HVAC place had a five week wait time. By then, the summer would be over." Johnson mentioned his plight to a neighbor, who put him in touch with a friend who worked for an HVAC company, and fixed air conditioners on the side. One day later, Johnson's woes were over "It was great," he said "Here was a guy who did exactly what I needed on the side. It was a blessing to find him."

This is the exact situation Magruder hopes to address with his new website. "The premise for the website is really quite simple" says Magruder "it's the matching up of people who do side work, and people who need side work done."

www.sidejobtrader.com goes online in March 2007, and will feature a database that is searchable by trade and area. Rates start at $6.95 for a 30-day ad, so tradespeople of every level can afford to advertise. And hopefully, the days of not being able to find someone to do a side job will come to an end.

Side Job Trader allows tradespeople of all skill levels to list their service, and gives people who need work done a place to find them. The online database is fully searchable, and is nationwide. To learn more about this service, please visit the website www.sidejobtrader.com, or contact Paula Stoffregen at (480) 677-9696.

Troy_3

john

thanx john. I'll save that site. All the unlicensed uninsured wannabes in one place. What a great idea. I wonder how many will use their employers cell phones to schedule this side work on our time. What a world. They won't work for me long. I find this extremely offensive!

Josh M.

Awesome! I have a friend that works for Labor and Industries. This is going to make his job a lot easier. I hope the "leaky faucet" is worth $250 for your first offense.

Mad Dog_2

and.........................................................

Our trade takes another great slide in to oblivion. Mad Dog

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Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh

I'll bet they would!

The following is a clip from their website:

"A “side job” is usually a smaller home improvement or repair job that is performed by a skilled tradesperson “on the side” from their regular jobs. In other words, a professional plumbing company might not be interested in fixing one leaky pipe (too small a job.) But a local person who works for that plumbing company might be very interested in doing this type of job on a weeknight or a weekend."

Well, I would imagine there are going to be quite a few newly unemployed tradesmen once this gets rolling. I for one will make certain that everyone working for me has no uncertainty as to where I stand on this issue.

It also seems that the website purveyors should be made to include the following:

"Use of "sidejob workers" may expose you the customer to a person who is without workmen's compensation coverage, without proper insurance coverage against damage or loss incurred to your home or business, and probably a tradesman working without a license to contract work."

Leo

All Trades

It happens in all trades. Laid off union electricians are told not to do side work cause it takes away from their union brothers.

We have an oil company in town that used to take the van away if you were on vacation fearing guys would do installs. That same owner approached the local Mercedes mechanic to work on his Mercedes "on the side".

Leo

Marty

Paula owes ya

Is this free promotion or complaining about it ?

Jim Bennett

I never...

have done any "side work". I've been working now around 27 years for the same company. My home and family is what I do in my "off" time.

I sometimes think I'm the only one who feels this way. I get approached for "side work" on a weekly basis. Many people are stunned when I am not interested in there work. Some won't take "No" for an answer.

I tell 'em they can't AFFORD my spare time!

jim

mikea23

Side work is a problem we all face. A few of my Mech do side work there is no way to stop them. All I can do is inventory all my trucks and hope for the best.

I hate that people call unlicensed contractors but some of us have blame in this as well. How many guys pulled permits for other people.
Mike A

John R. Hall

Anothermarty

You must not know me. Read the thread title.

Long Beach Ed

There's always gonna be someone...

Someone is always looking for a good or better price. And there will always be someone there to do the work. But as is noted above, the real masters of the inductry don't do side work. They are paid well, like their employers and simply don't **** themselves for a few bucks.

So what these landlords, county workers and car salesmen get for their dollar are the slobs of the inductry, usually working with half the knowledge the need to do the job right, none of the support, licenses or insurance.

Just pay your guys fairly, treat them like the assets they are and don't worry that they'll take a $300 job from you. The scrounge wouldn't pay you anyway, so you're really not losing anything.

LB Ed

Dick_3

I agree with LB Ed, if your employees are well paid with good benefits and you keep them busy with steady work, they have no desire to do side work.


If you're concerned about your employees doing side work, maybe you're not doing your job. Are they getting 40 hours plus every week? Do they have a solid living wage with real benefits, enough to raise a family with a decent life style?

The mistreated employee will surely become you're competition. There's many guys who do side work then start their own shops because they can't find a "good" job, can't really blame them. It's just the way it works - a re-action for each action.


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Marty

I did

Mr. Hall I did read the title ,,,Why give them free publicity ? Thats no better than people who post a link to one of the several companies that sell equipment direct then complain about it.

Ohhh and I am a service tech, a damm good one too who has no interest whatsoever in doing any sidework. That title was a very poor choice of words.

mikea23

All my people get full benny vacation time sick days I pay them a good wage probably on the higher side in most cases and we always have steady work nobody gets under 45 hrs unless they need less. But NY it's tuff so a few of them feel they need more money. They never tell me about there side work but I'm not blind.

You can pay them anything and give them the world but untill the industry and municipalitys crack down hard it will always happen.

If they get caught working without a license its a small fine. whats with that how about if you get caught working without one you will loose your right to apply for 10 years. They do that for Insurance agents, apraisers, doctors, lawyers, the list goes on. But if its plumbing it costs 250. Bottom line if we want to solve the problem we need to get together and push for change. In my state that would be starting with State wide licenses and laws not leting local municipalitys control us.

Mike A

Ken D.

Side work

I don't agree with side work, but I do understand why. Especially in the service side, it is almost impossible to take on some legit part time job. The service hours are too irregular. If you are supposed to work your part timer at 6:00 PM and you get a service call that takes you past 7 or 8, there goes the second job. And of course the business owner will insist he is paying you top dollar, which you know is a myth. And one very important reason for NOT doing side work...LIABILITY... If something happens, you're up the creek if you have no insurance. Even if you did nothing wrong you and probably your employer are going to get sued. Everyone who came within 10 miles of that unit will be included in the suit to maximize the profit for our cheapskate equipt. owner. Too many people pay moonlighters because they don't want to pay full price which would include liability insurance. Fine and dandy, But let something go wrong they will forget all about friendships, that you are just trying to help. They'll give you both barrels as if you are a huge company. You have too much to lose.

Dirty Hands Dale

If your Techs really need side jobs, Then are you paying them enough? When i first started plumbing and heating I had to work 2 jobs 7am till 4:00-4:30 plumbing then right to a higher end restraunt to work the night shift on the grill, plus one shift on Sundays. I did that for just under a year, now I can do a side job to gap the difference. It beats the 15-16 hour days.

I do side jobs, nothing too serious. My boss does not mind side jobs, as long as you let him know if you are using his stock. The side work I do is mostly permited and Inspected.

I certainly do not take work away from my employer since he is not interested in the small stuff, and he is all for me making more money and getting more hands on knowledge. I don't use his Pro-Press or Viega crimp tools eighther and have been building up my own stock.

I can not understand the hacks that come in and really create nightmares and dissapear, all the work I do is not going to be more than I can deal with and all of my work is done to the best of my ability because I am building a reputation for myself.

I certainly do understand where you guys are coming from.
Part of the problem are home owners looking for the real low bidders, I have had to turn down side jobs and drop clients because they do not want to spend ANY money.
If your vanity is collapsing on itself then why install a new bottom of the barrel home depot faucet?

You get what you pay for right?

I learn from side jobs. Honestly how many of you guys did side work when you were starting out? Maybe it helped you get where you are today.

One more thing, If you have too watch your trucks because you are afraid of techs stealing from them, why do you want them working for you? Why wouldn't they steal from a clients house?

Norm Harvey

The uninsured is a problem, but I dont see what the fuss is about for techs to do work for their own accounts should they carry their own liability and use their own tools and parts.

So long as they are not doing this side work for the companys customers, and are using their own equipment I dont see the issue.

I do bet there are very few techs if any that would carry their own liability insurance (even though its pretty inexpensive) and have the ethics to maintain the line between company customers and his customers.



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mikea23

Point well taken but if you price a job at the same scale as me with no overhead is that fair and if somthing happens like a fire or flood who pays is that fair to the homeowner.

I understand there is alot of good people out there I have looked at work performed by a few of my guys that is much better then other licensed companys could dream of doing. But if they work on the side with no insurance who pays in the end. Accidents happen all the time even to the best guys our insurance rates in this industry are high for a reason

Steve Ebels_3

John

If you have delved into Ms Granholm's proposed tax bill for our state, you may have figured out that all of the people who are side jobbers, unregistered businesses, and the like will now be breaking the law if they fail to report sales tax collected on labor. I seriously doubt that many of those working for cash on the side report it as income in the first place but this will be a double whammy if they're caught.

Dirty Hands Dale

Insurance does worry me, and I really don't take on jobs that will kill people or destroy a house.

I certainly do not charge as if I had overhead like an inc. buisiness, I do benefit finacially, but it is at an appropriate rate.

Disclaimers have come to my mind before, but it seems so sleazy not to have faith in your work, I am not replacing boilers and water heaters yet but just in the last few days I have been thinking about insurance alot.

Grumpy I wholeheartedly agree with you on the disclaimer issue since this website could be full of bozo hacks who have never even been employed in any trade. Its aiding and embedding scam artists, the elderly will be the biggest targets.

Really how many of you guys did side jobs starting out, be honest.

mikea23

A few years back my best guy doing this 20 plus years was on one of my jobs working in a boiler room on a below the floor trap on a tub. Very simple job cut out the old galv trap and replace with PVC one cut one clamp and 2 or 3 glue joints. He was on a 6 foot lader the primer can fell and at the same time the water heater lit insant flames by the time he got to the truck and retreived the fire ext and put it out it was maybe 2 or 3 minutes max. the smoke and dust from the fire ext was all over the basement. Total Bill to my insurance company was 14336.16 I keep a copy of that bill on my wall in my office.

Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh

Read more than the title

The name of the person is Paul A. not Paula. Secondly, while you may very well be a "damned good tech" that has no desire to do side work, there are no less than three others that have responded to this thread by saying that they do and will. One of whom is contemplating going into business for himself because he is "thinking about insurance". So the title of the thread is indeed appropriate, there ARE techs out there who by their own actions create the need to be "watched".

lee_7

I work for a great company that pays well. I also have my own company; my own insurance, overhead, and expenses. I have been doing this long before working for this company. They know that I have my own business and I believe they are fine with this. I do not hide my side work and often discuss with my boss. I would never, ever attempt to take their customers, as they would not take mine. Both of our companies do hvac, bath and kitchen remodeling. They are also plumbers. I am not. I offer electrical, basement remodeling, and home additions. If I need plumbing on my work, who do you think I call?

Perry_3

Not for many

A lot of tradspeople do work on the side. They even have the right licenses and pull permits too...

As long as they do that - and declare their income (Schedule C most common where they can claim their expenses); no one has any legal beef.

A company - except for some very unusual situatons - cannot control what work people do when they are not at work. There have been enough court rulings on that. Heck, even most of the non-compete clauses that "profesionals" sign get tossed out by the courts as unreasonable.

Perry

colbydoglvr_3

what is enough money???

I used to do about 25 grand a year NET in side jobs... I never stole parts from my employer ever... I would take on very very fine technical jobs, usually HIGH END radiant heating. I would charge TOP dollar. I would take my time and do the finest job possible, ALWAYS. I made about 50 grand a year at my regular job so my income was about 75g a year.
I now work for a company that has a no sidework policy or your fired. I make 20 bucks an hour, and have very good benefits that cost me about 115 bucks a week. My boss is a really GREAT guy. I live in northern new england and live in the vacation land of the super rich. I work on and in houses that cost millions. Ferrari's have become just another car. The hydronic systems that I build are pretty much as good as it gets. my present project is in a house that costs 20 million plus. I WORK MY **** OFF!!! MY TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE IS VERY, VERY HIGH. I have 3 kids and a wife to take care of. WHY IS IT I WORK SO DAMN HARD AND HAVE SO MUCH KNOWLEDGE BUT STRUGLE TO PAY FOR THINGS LIKE SUMMER CAMP, MUSIC LESSONS, PRESCHOOL, NICE SHOES ETC,ETC,ETC. i LOOK AROUND AND I SEE OTHERS ENJOYING LIFE AND MAKING GOOD MONEY FOR DOING A WHOLE LOT LESS THAN I DO. I WORKED HARD TO LEARN WHAT I KNOW, IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO ME BY AN EMPLOYER. I WORKED HARD TO MAKE MY HANDS STRONG AND TALLENTED. I WORKED HARD TO LEARN HOW TO GET THAT 600 POUND BOILER DOWN THAT SET OF STAIRS (WHITHOUT GETTING ANYONE KILLED) THAT THE HOMEOWNER BUILT HIMSELF OUT OF STRAPPING AND PLYWOOD ON A FRIDAY NIGHT WITH HIS BUDDIES WHILE THEY WERE DRINKING BEER. **** ONE OF THOSE BOILERS EVEN BIT ME REAL GOOD AND PUT ME IN THE HOSPITAL ONCE. I AM VERY LOYAL AND RESPECT MY BOSS A LOT BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS... IF I EAT MACARONI AND CHEESE ONE MORE FRIGIN TIME... OR IF I SKIP LUNCH TOO MANY MORE TIMES SO MY KIDS CAN HAVE NICE SHOES INSTEAD OF WALMART SPECIALS... I MIGHT JUST STEAL ONE OF THOSE FERRARI'S, TELL MY BOSS TO @#%& HIMSELF AND DRIVE AS FAST AS I CAN TO THE NEAREST SIDE JOB JUST SO i CAN ONCE AGAIN TASTE GOOD OLE MEATLOAF... POINT IS THAT MY TALENT IS MY OWN. I EARNED IT. I WORKED HARD FOR IT. IF I CAN MAKE EXTRA MONEY FOR SOME SIDE WORK I SHOULD BE ABLE TOO AND SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE. AND IF YOU WANT TO ****... THAN ON YOUR WAY TO YOUR BENZ WHEN YOUR PISSED OFF CAUSE JONNY IS DOING SIDE WORK AND NOW HE IS EATING ROAST BEEF INSTEAD OF PBJ'S,THAN GOOD FOR HIM!!! I LIKE ROAST BEEF I THINK, (ITS BEEN SO LONG I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT TASTES LIKE). AND IF YOU DONT WANT JONNY DOING SIDE WORK THAN PAY HIM A HUNDRED GRAND A YEAR. JONNY HAS A FRIGGIN FAMILY TOO... OH AND BY THE WAY JOHNY DRIVES A FRIGGIN 1994 GRAND FRIGGIN CARAVAN. HOWS THAT BENZ OF YOURS DRIVE???????? JMO, GOING CRAZY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, AND MAC AND CHEESE SUCKS... ERIC

Leo G_99

Cheez-loueez!

Why not see this as an oppurtunity to get more business? I think if a company was to assign one tech (maybe the older guy that doesn't move as quickly, and really doesn't want to retire yet?) to take on these small jobs only, and with that cheap of a rate for advertising, BINGO! bucks for everyone!!!!

There really is a need for someone to take on these small jobs. Why not an established company? Get your foot in the door. C'mon guys, where's your entrepanorial (sp) spirit????

Leo G

PS - thanx for the addy John, gonna see if there is anything like this up in the Great White North.

pete_22

Sounds like you have issues. Maybe you are lucky to have a job. Stop crying you only make $20 an hour and start your own business if you can.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Do you really think this will work?

Sounds to me little different than similar "connections" for true contractors. From reports I've heard here, such is essentially worthless.

If your tech wants (or needs) work on the side he won't have much problem finding without having to pay some wanna be internet entrepreneur.

colbydoglvr_3

yeah right...

you got an extra 50g laying around I can borrow to start my buisness. yeah I got issues, cheap friggin industry for what we know and do. ever see an electrician try to wire something as simple as a power venter? ever seen a poor electrician? **** half the time they ask me if I would mind pulling a wire for them while I am down in that crawlspace... hey, you got a benz loopy? probably... lmfao

Leo G_99

Interesting rant dog lover,

> you got an extra 50g laying around I can borrow

> to start my buisness. yeah I got issues, cheap

> friggin industry for what we know and do. ever

> see an electrician try to wire something as

> simple as a power venter? ever seen a poor

> electrician? **** half the time they ask me if I

> would mind pulling a wire for them while I am

> down in that crawlspace... hey, you got a benz

> loopy? probably... lmfao

DanHolohan

.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

Being in business

and running a business are not at all the same beast!

A company should have a written policy regarding moonlighting. Must be signed & witnessed.

Working for a customer of the company is no different than stealing - as The Donald would say.....

Using the company vehicle on a moonlighting job - get The Donald treatment.

Both are Willful Misconduct, so there goes the Unemployment bennies - poof.

Once had a guy working for me who ran an ad in the paper. Said he gave 24/7/365 service. Funny, but I thought he was working for our company at least 8 out of those 24?!? He was officially "in business" just minutes later. That lasted about three years until being in business caught up with running a business and he went out of business.

But, folks are always looking for a bargain & will toss common sense aside in that pursuit. It's not the skills I'd be worried about so much as it would be the insurance & liability issues. If you hire a side-jobber & they get hurt while working for you, guess what - you're on the hook for their disability in my state. Same goes for us if we hire a sub & he's not properly insured. Then both of us are on the hook.

Local GC hired a low bidder (now there's a shocker) mason who stopped by the work site on a Saturday. Fell off the roof & broke his back. He had no insurance, so that explained the low-ball bidding. Both the GC & HO were deemed responsible for his permanent disability. They appealed & lost - no due dilligence.

Then there's the issues if the work goes south, property damage occurs or they set fire to the place. A legit business covers the HO with a warm blanket of total coverage for contingencies like that.

Roll the dice baby!

Tim P._2

Just a happy homeowner here, but I did have my own contracting business for 10 years before I got a civil service job.. so I do think I have somewhat of an opinion to offer.

I would agree that using company trucks, parts, etc on a sidejob without permission is stealing. I think we all agree.

I think colbydoglvr hit the nail square on the head. I am surprised that some people have just dismissed what he had to say.

Maybe in some parts of the country you can live on $27k a year (I believe that's what you net from $20/hr). In other places, such as mine and I'm sure colbydoglvr (who lives in the "playground of the rich and famous"), there is no friggin way to live on $600 a week. **** a mortgage will cost you that.

I'm not saying that everybody should be paid more money, and certainly starting your own business is always an option. But preventing people from doing side jobs?

Sign a non-compete clause, do what you have to do. But I think trying to dictate what people do with their free time is pathetic.

Depending on the employee, after about a year I would let them use my equipment on their side jobs. You break it, you buy it, of course. Never a truck with the company name on it or anything.. But if you needed to borrow a tool.. here you go.. and thanks for the good job you did today.

Still cheaper than paying them enough to live comfortably, right?

All situations are different. Some people I wouldn't trust with a hammer.. but then again they wouldn't be working for me very long anyway. However, I stick to my statement about what people do on their own time.

but... as the Wall has shown.. we all have our own opinions

Tim

Mark Hunt

Liability


Works the same in NY Dave. If a customer hires a person to do work on their property and that worker gets hurt, the customer is responsible for the workers comp and medical bills.

If damage is done to the home, the HO is out of luck.

I know of one instance where an HVAC mechanic did a side job and totally screwed up the install. The HO then called the company he worked for and tried to get them to fix it....for free. No dice.

Mark H

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loopy

Yes $20 a hour is crap and not being able to do side work sucks. But last time I checked this is America and no one forced him to take this job or go into a field that does not pay well. We all make CHOICES in life and need to do what it takes to make a living.
If all he needs is 50k to start his business he should get a job on the weekends and night and save up for a couple of years and do it. His second job does not have to be in HVAC.

Dave_4

Loopy I agree with you 100%.

I would put the notion forth that some people don't have a lot of choices. There's nothing wrong with picking a trade and being good at it.. although it does limit your.. choices.

Again, I have no problem with a non-compete agreement, but I would have a problem with an employer limiting my.... choices.. on my own time.

Yes, I would give my notice if my employer felt the same way as some of the employers here do.. But I have other avenues.. other choices.

And yes, if you're not happy.. you should be looking into another employer.. or maybe a relocation. Hopefully you will have the resources to make that choice.

Tim

Perry_3

Hmmm...

Dave:

You make some good points but I think you missed something.

There are limits on what you can restrict your employees from doing.

They can't do anything on the side that directly affects you customers. True. Grounds for firing with or without a signed document.

But they could develop their own customers completely independently. I doubt there is a court in this land that would hold that kind of activity as interfering with their job as long as it was properly done, which includes them having the right permits, licenses, and insurance to do what they do.

Not everyone is meant to be an employee forever - and people need to learn some things about how to run a business by doing "side jobs" while they have their regular job. Now I admit that these people are not that many. But if they are really willing to try to do things right and take their lumps as they learn - what beef do you really have?

One of the things I have done is study how successfull businesses get passed from owner to owner - or generation to generaion. In almost all cases the buseiness gets passed to someone who had the gumption to get out there and try - and learn - and take their lumps of the isseus involved. In many cases the business gets passed to the "brown sheep" who abandoned the "family" to run their own business - becasue they are the only ones who have learned the lessons necessary to run a sucessfull business.

Someday you are going to retire. What will happen to your company. Will it get passed on to someone else who can make it thrive. Will you just sell the customer list and the equipment. Or will it just die. What legacy will you leave?

I suggest that the best thing you can do for this community - and your local comunity - is to help the right person who really wants to learn how to do it right. Of course there are rules about that help and they should not affect your current business. There is never enough good contractors out there - and there are pleanty of bad ones that need replacing.

In the end people do side work - or have side businesses - for a variety of reasons.

1) Do they just need more cash. In that case why arn't you providing the work or pay they need.

2) They want to learn how to run their own business and am willing to invest their time and money into learning and make some extra money to boot. In that case why don't you support them in their quest. Chances are good that they may be able to help you in return down the road.

3) they just want to make some easy extra money on the side by grabbing some gravy work and not worrying about permits, insurance, etc. In that case you have my support in firing them.

Oh, and I run a side business too. My supervisor and manager at work know that I do - and as long as I get my job done at work - they don't care. In fact, they are supportive.

Perry

Floyd_36

Sounds like...

you need to sit on the other side of the fence for a while and see what an owner has to go through just to give you the work that you appreciate so little.
Been on both sides and there are many days that I'd really like to get home and not have to think about work again till the next day... then the phone rings, or the wife and kids go to bed and then I start that piping diagram for the guys for the next days work, drag myself to bed in the early morning hours and get up before the guys to make sure that they are set for the day, then go make money myself doing the stuff I can't trust them to do....
Be careful what you wish for...

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

well Perry

Been there, done that & I'll do it again - helping that is.

Virtually everyone does some side jobs & I'm not ever going to try to eliminate that. But, I won't tolerate stealing either, so no working side jobs for our customers. Period. Same goes for our trucks and company tools. We pay for the wear & tear on our jobs, not the moonlight jobs.

Do we make exceptions? Sure do. But, the employees know they need to ask first.

Maine Doug_52

Wouldn't it be funny if

that whole side job web site was a sting operation to find uninsured and tax free operators?