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why is it a crapshoot with technical support ?
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allenleo
Member Posts: 26
ok, so one of my fellow service techs. and i went to a commercial apartment building for a heating problem. the problem was that the building would seriously overheat at times, and other times it would get to near freezing points.
the sysem is a forced hot water boiler with three zones. one zone heats the basement apartment. the second zone heats one of the two first floor apartments, and the third zone heats the other seven apartments in the building. there are two apartments per floor with the exception of the basement which only has one apartment.
so here is what we found. the two zones controlling one apartment each were working perfect, no problem. the zone heating the rest of the building was working in extremes, either way too hot or way too cold. the main zone is controlled by a thermostat in the boiler room with a remote sensor. the remote sensor was located in the apartment that already had its own independent zone, yeah the one on the first floor. what was happening is that at one time that first floor apartment was not independent from the main zone, it had recently been converted to an independent zone but the sensor was never moved to a different apartment. that is what the problem was.
here was our solution, install a wireless sensor in a different apartment to a receiver and thermostat in the boiler room. not a big deal, right ???
so , we get the set up from carrier corp., but there are no wiring instructions for this thermostat for oil applications. i should add that this thermostat was being wired to a honeywell 845a relay. the tt contacts provide 24volts. the thermostat needs to be powered with 24 volts. the thermostat has terminals W R C and the instructions say that the thermostat needs to be powered at the C R terminals . so, at first i try wiring it from tt to cr, the thermostat display powered but never operated the relay. then i tried to power the transformer to C R with a jumper from C to W, the thermostat powered and energized the relay, but would chatter off and on continuously.
so i decided to call carrier to see if they could nudge me in the right direction. i talked to one of their not so friendly tech support reps. he informed me that the relay did not support this kind of thermostat because this thermostat needs a three wire set up, and the relay needs a C terminal and does not have one so it would not work. he and his fellow co-workers, who must have been listening to our conversation as well, laughed as if in superiority of the lowly service technician. then he talked down to me while he was trying to explain how i was too stupid to understand what it was he was trying to explain.
so being more concerned with getting this installed correctly than my own pride, i asked another question. i asked him, if i used a separate 24volt transformer to power the C R terminals of the thermostat and then ran thermostat wire from the R W terminals to my TT terminals on the 845a relay with a power to power isolation relay between the thermostat and the switching relay, wouldn't this eliminate the need for a C terminal on the switching relay. the laughing stopped, and meekly he responded, yes it will.
well i was half right, the separate transformer worked, but i didn't need the isolation relay because the thermostat never back-fed 24 volts to the switching relay, but he doesn't know that, i didn't bother to call back to inform him like usually would have after i come to a resolution on a problem that tech support helped me with, because i didn't think he helped me at all.
on the other hand, i have definitely had positive experiences with technical support before, just not with carrier. honeywell usually has all the wiring diagrams in front of them on their computers for any and all applications of their equipment, and are often very helpful and respectful, but not all product companies have good technical support. it truly is a crapshoot.
what companies have you had good or bad experiences with, in reguards to their technical support programs.
allen leo.
the sysem is a forced hot water boiler with three zones. one zone heats the basement apartment. the second zone heats one of the two first floor apartments, and the third zone heats the other seven apartments in the building. there are two apartments per floor with the exception of the basement which only has one apartment.
so here is what we found. the two zones controlling one apartment each were working perfect, no problem. the zone heating the rest of the building was working in extremes, either way too hot or way too cold. the main zone is controlled by a thermostat in the boiler room with a remote sensor. the remote sensor was located in the apartment that already had its own independent zone, yeah the one on the first floor. what was happening is that at one time that first floor apartment was not independent from the main zone, it had recently been converted to an independent zone but the sensor was never moved to a different apartment. that is what the problem was.
here was our solution, install a wireless sensor in a different apartment to a receiver and thermostat in the boiler room. not a big deal, right ???
so , we get the set up from carrier corp., but there are no wiring instructions for this thermostat for oil applications. i should add that this thermostat was being wired to a honeywell 845a relay. the tt contacts provide 24volts. the thermostat needs to be powered with 24 volts. the thermostat has terminals W R C and the instructions say that the thermostat needs to be powered at the C R terminals . so, at first i try wiring it from tt to cr, the thermostat display powered but never operated the relay. then i tried to power the transformer to C R with a jumper from C to W, the thermostat powered and energized the relay, but would chatter off and on continuously.
so i decided to call carrier to see if they could nudge me in the right direction. i talked to one of their not so friendly tech support reps. he informed me that the relay did not support this kind of thermostat because this thermostat needs a three wire set up, and the relay needs a C terminal and does not have one so it would not work. he and his fellow co-workers, who must have been listening to our conversation as well, laughed as if in superiority of the lowly service technician. then he talked down to me while he was trying to explain how i was too stupid to understand what it was he was trying to explain.
so being more concerned with getting this installed correctly than my own pride, i asked another question. i asked him, if i used a separate 24volt transformer to power the C R terminals of the thermostat and then ran thermostat wire from the R W terminals to my TT terminals on the 845a relay with a power to power isolation relay between the thermostat and the switching relay, wouldn't this eliminate the need for a C terminal on the switching relay. the laughing stopped, and meekly he responded, yes it will.
well i was half right, the separate transformer worked, but i didn't need the isolation relay because the thermostat never back-fed 24 volts to the switching relay, but he doesn't know that, i didn't bother to call back to inform him like usually would have after i come to a resolution on a problem that tech support helped me with, because i didn't think he helped me at all.
on the other hand, i have definitely had positive experiences with technical support before, just not with carrier. honeywell usually has all the wiring diagrams in front of them on their computers for any and all applications of their equipment, and are often very helpful and respectful, but not all product companies have good technical support. it truly is a crapshoot.
what companies have you had good or bad experiences with, in reguards to their technical support programs.
allen leo.
0
Comments
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Bill Merchant @ Laars....EXCELLENT!!! Great guy, always helpful. Taco & Crown as well. Not so good with Weil Mclane....
TimJust a guy running some pipes.0 -
Unico, Tekmar and Viega are the cream of the crop for tech support.
Raypak and Rinnai need a little work.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Some HO experiences...
... when Ed Wallace had a couple of questions for Viessmann, he had no issues getting a straight answer from a real, knowledgable human being in less than two minutes (which is how long it took us to find the telephone number).
Calling Lifebreath as a HO was somewhat hilarious... tech support didn't want to talk to me until we'd gone through a little dance establishing I knew what I was talking about - and that my HVAC contractor knew less about the TRV than I did. After that, they couldn't have been nicer and more helpful.
Grundfos sent a rep out here after the pumps started sounding like loud rubber ducks. Once our HVAC contractor had flushed the system (airbound loops) and raised the pressure to 20 psi, these issues went away. Kudos!
Talking to hydronicsmike at Tekmar couldn't be more pleasant also. Besides offering a wealth of information, he just couldn't be a nicer guy! Yet another reason to use Tekmar...
... and the many luminaries here that add their own wisdom to the collective pot.0 -
There's
a huge difference in support between HVAC and hydronic manufacturers. The HVAC mfg's expect the wholesaler to provide support where the hydronic mfg's provide it themselves in most cases. I learned this the hard way when having difficulty with a Hydro-air handler. Another reason wet heat is better!
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
I am sure you meant:
Talking to hydronicsmike at Tekmar couldn't be more pleasant also. Besides offering a wealth of information, he just couldn't be a nicer guy! Yet another reason to use Tekmar...
"If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"
-Ernie White, my Dad0 -
tech support
i have also had good experiences when dealing with tekmar, especially when i first started using their controls. they pretty much walked me through the functions and set-up.
i have to agree that i think the hvac tech support staff is definitely trailing the steam and boiler control guys in experience in their jobs and their customer service skills. sorry guys, not trying to generalize, i'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. maybe next time i talk to the guys at carrier, they will be a bit more professional; after all that is the name of the game, we are all just trying to be the best professionals that we can be. well most of us anyway. lol.0 -
Oh, Brad!!!
I would not have caught that without you; that is funny, and knowing our friend Constantin, he will realize that it is a grammatical error. Funny, though!!!!!
Yeah, Mike at Tekmar is really smart. The Tech Guys at Viessmann have been AWESOME for me; I cannot say enough about their quick and accurate response. To follow protocol, I would say:"Kudos to those guys"; unfortunately I would not know a Kudo from a Cheeseburger, but I think it is a good thing. What is a Kudo? Do you get them by the pound or kilogram? Can they be ordered for take out? Can they be ordered steamed and/or deep fried? Will they keep in the freezer? Just joking from ice-bound Maine! Jack
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support
Tekmar is top notch, they walked us thrue a tn4 system over the phone!! great support for a great product.
Buderus is gret also. The only one i can not stand talking to is slant fin, they have no interest in helping oyou at all.
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Thanks guys!
LOL! That's what I get for trying to bottle-feed a baby and type one-handed at the same time. Silly me, men aren't meant to multi-task. The message above has been corrected! Cheers!0 -
I don't give kudo's anymore
they shipped the manufacturing to China and the quality went downhill...still looking for a local supplier..
all kidding aside...some great and bad experiences everywhere0 -
good guys
Mike at tekmar rules, no one is better. Other tech people must call Mike to experience the 'standard'.
Joe at Buderus is great
What's up with wrightsoft??????????????????????????????????
Who'se the main man at Viessmann? I usually call Paul Ross (Western Mass rep) , I usually get faster better answers. I haven't called Warwick in ages. Rob Waters in Canada rocks.
The HVAC people can be a challenge, Lennox and Trane can be tough, no real complaints though.
We have a local Rheem distributor that got me on a three way conversation with a factory rep within two minutes a month ago......I was blown away; they're not my main HVAC line and this local guy bent over backwards. I was in awe.
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Yeh Whats With That
I was on the phone Friday with LuxAir ,on hold for 45 min ,had to give it up .. I Just needed to get a error code , Their web site sucked too ,no tech support or open info . At least post the codes on the machine .. Rheem and Ruud the same way , They all blow .0 -
Tech Support
Please remember tech support are people to. We all have bad days! Gary, Thanks for the kind words.0
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