32 Unit building

[Deleted User] · February 2007

> I am looking at purchasing a 32 unit building. 
> All studios. FHW Gas system from the 70's with 
> ind thermostats. I don't have the details on the 
> boiler but its big and old. 
> 
> Anybody have 
> experience in using mod/cons in this type of 
> environment? Fuel savings? Indirect HW? Any setup 
> recomended? 
> 
> I don't want to build in 
> effiecinecy improvements in the financial 
> numbers, but I suspect they could be there. I 
> assume if would be a 4-5 year payback if my 
> residential experience holds true for this type 
> of application. 
> 
> And, although I love w-m 
> ultra, i may be more apt to go with v - i would 
> want the most proven and rugged mod/con for this 
> type of investment. Any comments on type of 
> equipment also appreciated. 
> 
> Any thoughts, 
> ideas, comments or experience from the great 
> minds out here would be greatly appreciated..... 
 

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Boston · February 2007

Suggestions / 32 units mod/con?

I am looking at purchasing a 32 unit building. All studios. FHW Gas system from the 70's with ind thermostats. I don't have the details on the boiler but its big and old.

Anybody have experience in using mod/cons in this type of environment? Fuel savings? Indirect HW? Any setup recomended?

I don't want to build in effiecinecy improvements in the financial numbers, but I suspect they could be there. I assume if would be a 4-5 year payback if my residential experience holds true for this type of application.

And, although I love w-m ultra, i may be more apt to go with v - i would want the most proven and rugged mod/con for this type of investment. Any comments on type of equipment also appreciated.

Any thoughts, ideas, comments or experience from the great minds out here would be greatly appreciated.....

[Deleted User] · February 2007

several factors

What type of radiation? Has heat loss been done? We have put mod /con boilers in some comercial buildings and apt buildings with great success.
Do a heat loss calc and figure out how much hot water you need to size your indirects. Here in massachusetts comercial indirects must be A.S.M.E. rated.
A building we did last october had 48 units and over 250 gallons of hot water, We installed 4 lochinvar knights. They have cut there fuel consumption by 60% and had unlimited hot water. The other good feature of the lochinvar boilers is that you dont need any extra controls to run the multiple boilers it is all internal.

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Boston · February 2007

Indirects

Mike,

Building is in MA. Great input on your 48 unit building. My suspricion is that some really good efficiencies could be predicted. Sny idea on payback time for the investment?

I don't know the brand you mentioned. Do you do s lot of install with that brand? I know its highly opinion based, but how do you see the knoght compared with w-m or viessman?

I will go do some research on the company. If tey have a lot of units out there, especially in a commerical environment, I can be convinced. I assuming with mod/cons there will be a bunch tied together - am I wrong in thinking this will give me some safety of eliminating a single point of failure?

sid_2 · February 2007

heat and hot water for each apt in one boiler

Check out the BIASI Riva Combi wall hung modulating boiler which includes a 16 gal stainless indirect water heater within the unit. I sold Rand Homes in Caunaut Lakes Pa about 25 and they were thrilled with the ease speed simplicity and price. Ya , I am a distributor for Biasi gas and oil boilers for PA and NJ but there is much excitement about this product line.

Sid --Tom Antonelli Dist--Bristol Pa

R

[Deleted User] · February 2007

APT conversions...

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=45703&mc=22

We typically see a minimum 30% reduction in fuel consumption and as high as 50% depending on numeorus variables...

ROI is dependent upon numerous variables as well...

ME

Boston · February 2007

perfect world....

Sid:

Thanks - i am excited to go see how it is piped, but if each unit has a t-stat, this could be a way to go. Not sure how much room 32 wall hungs and piping woul dtake int he mechanical room, but obviously this would be a great way to indivudually meter gas and hw.

sid_2 · February 2007

Not sure of your situation but these are small units that hang on room wall about size of kitchen cabinet, in fact they usually are found in european kitchens and blend in or a small closet. if you have gas avail in each APT AND A LOOP OF BASEBOARD IT IS SIMPLE.. ALSO ADVANTAGE OF EACH UNIT BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR BILLS IS THE KEY. SEE PRODUCT ON QHTINC.COM AND GIVE ME A CALL IF YOU WISH 610 405 3124.

SID

32 Unit building

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