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Steamhead

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hvacfreak
hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
I'm thinking McDonnell Miller 67 to replace the " Guarddog" elwco. I can't stand the foam check sequence on that thing. I have clean combustion tests but when I tear down in the summer I see a different story. What are your thoughts on this ? Thanks -Mike

( I'll consult Burnham before I do this , just wanted your thoughts on this .).

Comments

  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    Gorton in MD

    What supplier in MD sells Gorton vents ?
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    No one as far as I know

    you'd have to special-order them. I do know you can get them on the State Supply and PEX Supply online stores.

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  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    Hoffman 75

    Used these forever...but I feel I may be missing the best that life has to offer. That poor 1-A on the radiator on the end of that main sure is fighting for me...lol...when I hear it vent I know heat is commin.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    A Gorton #2

    is worth about 3-1/2 Hoffman #75s. Get your hands on one and you'll see what I mean.

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  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    Number 2

    Thats what I really need for sure. And will hopefully last a heating season too. I think I'm pretty clean ( system ) , and another main vent that didn't make it to see spring time. Thanks.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    What kind of deposits

    do you find when you open the boiler up?

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  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    nothing weird

    Just alot of black dust in the flue passages ( some caked on but I suspect this occurs later in the season )...but more than I'd expect from the combustion tests I set it uo the previous fall. I've had 5 years with this boiler , and each year it's the same thing , packed flue passages. Selected firing rate does match the connected load , draft seems good and consistant.

    The elwco just goes against everything I thought to be correct for oil burner and steam system operation...on / off , on / off.

    I'll take some of blame for the dirt with the venting ( I have watched it cycle on pressure , but the pipes were hot and the cycles were not short ).
  • Leo
    Leo Member Posts: 770
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    What brand boiler

    What brand boiler are we talking here, some are cleaner than others just by design.

    Leo
  • RonWHC
    RonWHC Member Posts: 232
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    Why not take

    a look @ what Hydrolevel has to offer? They've been real good for us on steamers.

  • RonWHC
    RonWHC Member Posts: 232
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    HVAC Guy.

    E-Mail me & I'll get a #2 to you from our D. C. stash.
  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    Burnham

    Burnham V-7 ..Beckett afg standard ( I know I should feel lucky it doesn't leak ). And yeah..by design these things are dirty on cold start...only to be aggrivated by a control that starts and stops . Replies and dialog appreciated. - Mike
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,250
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  • Leo
    Leo Member Posts: 770
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    Burnham's Usually

    Burnham's usually are one of the cleanest of the pin boilers. Now, if it is brownish yellowish crusty that's cold start. If it is black that is ignition and combustion adjustments. Does it have the right nozzle/pump pressure combination? Are the electrodes bad and the ignitor/transformer weak? Start stop start stop in a matter of seconds is bad but every few minutes shouldn't make it that dirty. ALL of the various combustion tests/settings need to be with in the recommended parameters. CO2 and stack temp give you efficiency but they mean nothing if draft and smoke readings are off.
    Hope this helps,
    Leo
  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    afk snowblower

    I do not have my test papers in front of me , but overfire draft was a solid .02 ( draft door open slightly ), stack was around 550 , O2 was somewhere in the mid eighties , no trace of smoke. Instunment used is a Lynn ( old school..I was "the man" when I bought that , lol ).

    The electrode points were sharp , set up to the centerline of the Hago nozzle ( I use the aluminum gauge ). Truths...I did not confirm pump pressure ( selected nozzle from o&m ).

    I did compare Hago and Delevan nozzles in the machine...I concluded that the Hago flame shape fit the chamber better ( each was listed in the O&M I believe ). And the combustion tests were as good as I could have hoped for , I was disappointed when I went to clean it ( every year ).

    I don't do much burner service these days ( commercial ) , filter and nozzle changes for myself. I have a pump test rig , I'll check the pump pressure.... I still want a mechanical lwco , as I have not yet heard a good argument as to why the elwco is better. If it is not causing my soot problem , it sure as hell "aint" helping it. Good dialog , thanks - Mike
  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    I'm not gonna pay alot..

    for this muffler. LOL. I'll check them out , thanks MD.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    Does your burner

    have valve-on delay? If not, that's what I'd add first. The dirtiest periods of an oil burner's operation are the starts and stops. VOD establishes a draft thru the boiler before the oil spray starts, and the solenoid valve closes instantly at the end of the run, unlike the cutoff in the fuel unit.

    If you use a primary control with a dual delay such as the R7184U, you can also set up fan-off delay which runs the fan for 30 seconds or so after the solenoid valve closes. This is a big help in tight boilers like the W-M 68 or Peerless JO series.

    The simplest type of VOD setup has the delay built into an add-on solenoid valve and works with any primary control. That's what I have on my Burnham V-14/ABC-Sunray Bantam, since it has a combination primary/aquastat relay control and I didn't feel like rewiring everything.

    On the subject of LWCO units- I agree the early probe units weren't great, but later ones are fine. I hear McDonnell & Miller just came out with one that doesn't need to be cleaned every year. We prefer probes for our installations, since most people forget to blow down the float types every week.

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  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    VOD

    Perhaps I did see a " drip stain " on the nozzle ....VOD might solve that if the pump pressure is correct ( which I'm sure it is ). Do new ELWCO's do anything weird like " check for foaming " ? I just want the burner to run when it is called to do so .

    edit..if you can make a ABC burner run , your a better oil man than me. I tried to be a " hero " on one of those once...I bought a universal electrode kit , springs , etc. Set everything up , checked it 5 times...never did get a clean ignition. I collected enough money from the homeowner to purchase an AFG ( a " floor furnace " ) ...5 years running with no burner set up or even a PM. I'm the only guy he'd ever call...and ( bless him ) ..I hope the burner out-lasts him.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    Try VOD

    and see if it improves the burner's operation. I think it will.

    Some Hydrolevel LWCO units still do have that anti-foam cycle. But before you switch LWCO units, straighten out your venting. When you can get steam to the ends of the mains quickly, you should be able to get some heat in the rads before the LWCO cycles.

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  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    ABC

    See my " edit "{ LOL. That " red frame " beast beat me down for sure.
  • Steamhead (in transit)
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    Do you remember

    which ABC that was? The low-speed ones could be very touchy....

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  • I'll agree

    I'll agree with Steamhead on this one. The V-7 should have had an external solenoid which was activated whenever the burner was told to run. The Beckett Clean-Cut pump is a far better setup when configured with the R7184 electronic relay. Much cleaner starts and cut-offs by far. The HydroLevel with foam check was something that we began using when we came out with the V-8 boiler though. As far as I remember it was not used on the V-7. I might add that there was a modification made to the Cycle-Guard control a couple of years ago to do away with short cycles that may have happened when the boiler first calls for heat. Originally the internal 10 minutes on - 90 seconds off timer was active all of the time even when the boiler was not told to run. If the thermostat happened to call when the internal timer was in the later part of its 10 minute on cycle you could encounter a real short run. This was fixed by HydroLevel by adding an extra terminal inside labeled "BNR". We added a contactor relay so that when the thermostat called it switched 120v to the "BNR" terminal to begin the full 10 minute run time sequence. These short on cycles could be the cause of the soot you are seeing.

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • RonWHC
    RonWHC Member Posts: 232
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    The new self

    cleaning McDonnell Probe types have a hollow plastic thing-a-ma-bob that is supposed to rotate around an indent in the probe. The rotating motion theoretically keeps the crud from building up on the probe.



  • hvacfreak
    hvacfreak Member Posts: 439
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    Glen

    This is exactly where I see the problem ( first call for heat ). I get maybe a minute burn time then " foam check ". Either way , the " Guarddog " is now the " Junkyarddog " ...what do you recommend as a replacement. I want a reliable control / safety that allows fire when I want to make steam. I don't mind " blowing down " or anything else. What would you replace it with ? Thank you for the help. -Mike

    Steamhead , it was a high speed burner ( looked like an af /afg but it was red. I saved it cause it beat me down , lol. If you need it , it's yours free.
  • mtfallsmikey
    mtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
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    Glenn, can I ask the stupid question?

    I've never seen the Clean cut oil pump. what sets it apart from the rest?
  • brucewo1b
    brucewo1b Member Posts: 638
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    If you asked then its

    not a studid question. Comes with a solenoid valve installed in the top front accsess port. AV2A 3006 I believe.
  • [Deleted User]
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    The standard SunTec

    has pressure against the solenoid when it opens. The clean cut solenoid closes to build pressure to the nozzle. Smoother, & cleaner, starts & stops.
  • mtfallsmikey
    mtfallsmikey Member Posts: 765
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    Thanks!

    A far cry from the 'ole Honeywell in line delayed opening valve we used to use...long over due.
This discussion has been closed.