Once a Kinight, always a Knight, but twice a Knight is too much!

Guy Woollard

I was trying to pull up a Monty Python "Knights that say Neet" analogy, but apparently I need more coffee today to pull it together.

Neat Knight job. Apparently you work well under pressure, because the work looks great. Now about that coffee....

Guy Woollard
N.E. Regional Sales Mgr
Triangle Tube Corp.

[Deleted User]

Meet Ken and Kendra Knight...

and their cousins Tommy and Terry Thermomax...

The history: Building built in the 70's, during cheap energy era. 1.5 mill cast iron boiler maintained at 180 F 24/7/365 for the production of hot water through an Everhot thankless coil.

Fast forward to 2007. Advanced Hydronics hired to replace exisitng, aged, deferred maintenance fire breathing dragon. Caveat, building must NOT be without hot water and heat for more than one day. 8 hour day...

We prefabbed the hydro panels, field erected the tanks and boilers, tied and wired everything in advance, and pulled the switch a week ago today and converted them into the new age. Total down time, 7 hours from water down to water up.

Kudos to everyone in the company that helped make this happen. And trust me, it took EVERYONE (Except Tom) to get it done...It was EXTREMELY crowed in that hot little boiler room.

The Knights are using the Cascade function, which is AWESOME to watch do its thing. THe DHW tank/exchangers are a reverse indirect, set up using the Auxilliary function of the control. Max boiler supply temperature for production of DHW = 160 degrees F. Storage tank max temparature = 150 degrees F. One tank per boiler for DHW. Boiler Cascade function kicks in for space heating only.

Thanks to Greg Gibbs (AKA Gregory PEX) for his telephone assistance in setting up the cascade feature first time around.

Now we wait for the utility company to send out the meter replacement crew...

We have another identical building to this one slated for conversion in late March. The residents LOVE us...

Questions?

ME

pete_22

very nice job. Do you have a closeup of your condensate neutrilizer?
thanks

Unknown

this job

This job is awesome, Mark! I see you are not giving pro press another chance?

[Deleted User]

Pro Press...

is in there. We used it for the final interface connections that were wet. We'd have been waiting forever for the building to stop draining. The technician on this job dislikes PP, but not because of leak issues, but primarily due to aesthetics (crooked pipes) and the weight of the crimping tool.

His labor ran a little over on this job, and I'm going to force him to use it on the next one just to prove a point about labor savings.

To their credit, out of the thousands of PP joints we've had, and many of those were glycoled, I can think of one leak, and I suspect that was installer error (snagged O ring assembling), but this thread is NOT about PP...

ME

[Deleted User]

NO...

But I can tell you how its made. It's made (starting from the bottom ond working upwards) with a 6" cap, a 6 X 2 sanitary tee, an 18" length of pipe, another sanitary tee, and a clean out cap. The interior is filled with crushed landscaping marble. The condensate enters the bottom tee, and percolates upward to the outlet. The outlet runs about 5 feet through the back wall and into the old mechanical room and into a floor drain.

Simplicity at its finest...

ME

hr

The control module on the Knight is

second to none. I have installed quite a few different brands of mod cons now, at least 8. I have to say, "out of the box" the Knight has the most comprehensive control package.

I like the data logging and boost features.

Do you have the PDA to "read" the Knight's yet? Nice tool.

hot rod

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D107

was reverse-indirect piped as buffer tank, and if so

was it placed on return or supply side? Seems like a recent Wall thread touched on the advantage --for mod cons-- of putting buffer tank on return side.

Thanks, and great work as always, apparent even to this HO,

David

[Deleted User]

Not yet...

I'm still working in the stone age (lap top PC interface)... But I use the same lap top for Munchkins, Knights, my HOBO data loggers and soon, Buderus interfaces.

ME

[Deleted User]

No bufferin here...

The reason we split the load equally betwixt the two Knights was to maximize our low end capabilites and avoid short cycling associated with one larger unit.

The two individual DHW tanks give redundancy for service, but thats all they do is DHW, no buffering.

ME

Greg Gibbs

Big Hard Chargn' Jim French?

Was Big Jim helping too? Another great looking job Mark.
Always a pleasure to see your work. -GPEX

Joe Brix

TurboMax tanks?

What size? Are they able to churn out a ton of DHW?

Dr Pepper

it takes maintenance...

I went to look at a neutralizing basin in an industrial plant years ago. The several dust covered bags of limestone were neatly stacked next to the basin, which had been discharging acidic condensate for many, many years into the river next to the plant. The maintenance guys claimed total ignorance of what the limestone was for or what the basin did. We just laughed, later after we left.

[Deleted User]

A.S.M.E

Mark are those tanks a.s.m.e rated ? What type are they?
Very nice install

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Cosmo_3

Cool!!

I always love the prefab jobs. The day before the changeover must have been hectic.....are we SURE we have everything?

Beautiful looking install, especially considering the circumstances.

I assume the water Heaters, and manifold piping on the left side were site built and ready before the day of the changeover? Or were they prefabbed as assemblies at the shop?

The Knight seems like a nice boiler to work on. I am looking forward to installing one some day.

Cosmo

[Deleted User]

Jim got us lunch...

Someone had to run the office...

Man he's a good cook (Domino's Pizza) :-)

Actually, I dragged his lanky bones out to the field Friday and made him do the tube dance on steel for 1800 feet of pipe. Couldn't have done it without him. Well, OK, I COULD have done it without him, but I'd have been there after dark getting done. The fresh air and experience does him good. We ALL need to get out of the office and back to our roots every once in a great while.

ME

[Deleted User]

These things kick some SERIOUS butt...

checkem out..

http://www.thermo2000.com/pdf/en-US/manu/turbomax.pdf

They keep the condensors within their condensing range when producing DHW. They are a reverse indirect. In other words, you run the boiler water through the shell and the potable water through the tube.

You American manufacturers need to pay attention to this company. They are setting the standard for high efficiency DHW systems, especially when couple with high efficiency heat sources.

ME

[Deleted User]

Dillution is the solution to polution...

or so some people think.

ME

[Deleted User]

Always, Sometimes, Maybe Except....

Always put in a manual reset high limit set for a a maximum 210 degrees F. Sometimes, the inspectors will recognize these U type heat exchangers as heat exchangers. Maybe they won't. Except when you force their hand...

I had a long conversation with the chief boiler inspector for Colorado, and he told me as long as I limited the supply water temperature to the HX'ers to less than 210 degrees F with a manual reset high limit, that he would accept their application.

The manufacturer does have an ASME approved device, and in that case ASME stands for A Substantial Monetary Exchange...

I'd suggest you check with your AHJ and make sure you're in compliance BEFORE you pull the trigger...

ME

[Deleted User]

Credit given...

Where credit due. Sean Smith waved his magic wand over my drawings, and like a magician, POOF, a great system appeared. He was backed up by his apprentice in waiting, Chris Nedrow.

Great job guys. I'm sure the next one will be MUCH easier...

ME

[Deleted User]

Guy...

In days of old when Knights were bold and condoms weren't invented, they tie a sock around their _____ and babies were prevented....

ouch.... glad I got a vasectomy:-)

ME

Greg Gibbs

We should all look back

now and agian and remember where we came from...Greg