Should I insulate my abated heating pipes?

jp_2

pumps are rated in watts, convert to btu's and subtract from efficiency, you'll find it a very very small number.

taco 007 is 70 watts or 250 btu's, if thats pushing 20,000 btu's you can see where the pumps load doe not mean much, 1.25%.

dukedoris

Should i insulate my abated heating pipes?

Love dan's books and was wondering if I needed to insulate my basement heating pipes. My second floor is very toasty and I am afraid of losing the little bit of heat the pipes generate in the basement. Any help will be appreciated.

Al Letellier_9

heat pipe insulation

You didn't mention if you have steam or hot water heat, but in either case, unless you want some heat in the spaces the pipes occupy, insulate them. It saves energy. Especially if its steam, and the boiler is sized very near to the connected load, you should insulate. If steam use at least 1" thick fiberglass insulation and molded fitting covers. If hot water and copper piping, 1/2" or 3/4" rubberize tube insulation would be adaquate.

dukedoris

Thanks al.
It is steam heat. I have an old coal furnace convereted to burn oil with a fairly new burnerwhich runs at last test 65% efficent. My basement is concrete block and the pipes do heat the area a little. I'm not sure of the connected load. a friend has a gas boiler and his basement, which is uninsulated, is far warmer then mine.

lee_7

If unit only has a 65% combustion effiency, it is time for a new boiler. My old company would turn off anything under 70% due to poor effiency and costs of operation. Think of it this way, at 65%, 35% is going up chimney. At $2.00 a gallon, that is .70 cent of every gallon lost. If you burn 1000 gallons a year, you are lossing $700.00. With a 90+ boiler, you could save almost $500.00 a year with a new boiler.

dukedoris

My instincts said the same. But after reading dan's book where he stated that most steam heat system boilers can't get much better then 80% efficient I coundn't conclude if it was worth the expense for 15 to 20% increase.

Steamhead (in transit)

That might have been true then

but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE) rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar program. Look into getting your old clunker replaced when the weather gets warm.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

dukedoris

> but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham

> Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE)

> rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar

> program. Look into getting your old clunker

> replaced when the weather gets warm.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

dukedoris

> but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham

> Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE)

> rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar

> program. Look into getting your old clunker

> replaced when the weather gets warm.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

dukedoris

> but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham

> Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE)

> rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar

> program. Look into getting your old clunker

> replaced when the weather gets warm.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

dukedoris

> but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham

> Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE)

> rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar

> program. Look into getting your old clunker

> replaced when the weather gets warm.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

dukedoris

> but now we have steam boilers like the Burnham

> Mega-Steam, with its 86% annual efficiency (AFUE)

> rating. This qualifies it for the EnergyStar

> program. Look into getting your old clunker

> replaced when the weather gets warm.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 367&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

dukedoris

Thanks Steamhead. This steam heat system has been a learning experience and I'm glad to have a website like this to help me from making knuckleheaded moves.

stonedog

AFUE

I don't believe that AFUE's tell the entire story but only
tell how efficiently the device converts fuel to "usable heat;"I assume this means heat in the air/water/steam stream that isn't lost out of the jacket or up the chimney.
The AFUE doesn't account for the electricity used for pumps
or blowers moving that heat.
I would like to see a study comparing the energy usage of a steam heat system of vapor design(no pumps) to a hot water baseboard system using boilers of identical size and AFUE using the heat delivered a standard distance from a radiator as a constant.Total energy used(fuel + electrcity)may be more comparable than the 80% max AFUE for steam boiler's suggests.

stonedog

j paul
I appreciate the discussion.
What is the typical duty cycle for such a pump? I have no idea;do they run 4 hrs./day in the heating season?
If so 70w x 4hr= 280wh or .280 kWh. In Btu....280kwh x
3413 Btu/kWh = 955 Btu .This is ~ 5% of 20,000 Btu.If the consumer is concerned about energy conservation globally you could roughly double the energy cost in Btu in order to account for energy losses in the generation/transmission of those electrons.

stonedog

j paul
I just realized that your numbers reflect a 20,000 Btu consumption and pump cycle for one hour; in that case the pump does only draw ~ 1% of the energy or 2 % in global energy cost.I am still curious about the energy needed to sustain the same temperature in a living space both in concrete terms( that is ,say raising a gram of water's temp
a fixed distance away from a register vs. a radiator) and people's perceived level of comfort comparing steam to hydronic or forced air systems.