radiant help

[Deleted User]

Gravity circulation and parallel ghost flow....


ME

lanceP

radiant help

Hello to all. I had radiant heat installed in my new addition. The addition consists 3 floors of 2200sqft. The total living space is 3100sqft. The basement heat is in the slab. The upper floors it was installed using quick trac. It is all 3/8" tubing. The house is 2x6 and well insulated. I have a 9 year old oil fired dunkirk ultimate tankless coil furnace. I have a side shot 2 power vent on the furnace. The furnace is rated at 135k BTU's. The problem I am having is that I can't regulate the temp in the house. I have 8 zones of heat. The furnace is constantly cycling. I am going through about 275 gallons of oil every 25 days costing me $500-$700. I am assuming I need a new furnace. Isn't radiant heat supposed to be more efficient. Any help will be appreciated

Al Letellier_9

radiant heat

Many questions to ask and be answered, like how did it heat before? Was a proper heat loss calc done? Is the boiler large enough? Was it piped correctly? How is the system balanced? and on and on and on. If the installer can't/won't help, its time for a second opinion. If you did it yourself, it still may be time for some professional help. Too many things to consider without seeing the system up close and personnal to answer your question.

lanceP

Thanks for the reply. I do not know if a heat loss was done. When I sent this out to bid I assumed he did this to give me a proper quote. I am in the business of remodeling and I know the ins and out of the trades. The system worked fine for us before the new addition. We had one zone of radiant in the kitchen and the rest of the house was hot water baseboard. Our oil bill was about $400 every 2 1/2 months. I was told that the boiler was ok but it was just pushing the limit. I really think the boiler is undersized. I did not have a new furnace in the budget at the time but now I do. I am ready to get a new furnace if I need to. I have received different opinions and every body has their own say. Its all piped in a primary loop. They installed mixing valves before the circulating pumps. The water coming out of the furnace is 180 and the mixing valves are set at between 120 and 150 degrees. The return water is coming back at 106 degrees. I do not have outdoor resets. I know I need them but the guy who installed the system does not seem to think so. We have to set the thermostats at 75-80degrees to get the rooms up to 60 degrees. Then we get such swings in temp during the days that it is cooking the wood floors. I have also been told that with a power venter on a oil furnace we could be loosing up to 40% percent efficiency. I really do not know who to believe. A Burnham rep was just over to look at the system and he saw a lot wrong with the set up and design of the system. He was suggesting a new burnham furnace with z flex and this way we would eliminate the power venter.
I am to the point of possibly threating a law suit because this guy left me with a inoperable system and all he has to say is that we need a new furnace. How do I convince someone that they messed up if they think what they did was correct. I really appreciate any help or suggestions.

Tony_23

For starters

It looks like it's piped quite wrong. Why are the return ball valves off ? Why do you need to set the stats at 75 to get 60 ? What happens when you set them at 70 ? 65 ? Has your boiler been set up with an analyzer, by a true pro ? Has he set the draft regulator ? How about the regulator in the SSII ?

At 250 gals/ month that's 35 MILLION Btus of #2 F.O. My 3000 sq ft house, built in 1875, and quite drafty yet has never used the 380 gallons of LP required to match that...

You need a PROFESSIONAL.

lanceP

the ball valves are shut off because the system was not up and running yet I will go and take pictures and post them. Thanks

lanceP

here are some pictures.

lanceP

here are some pictures.

lanceP

How do I go about getting this guy to fix the problems he created. Is a radiant system supposed to be very efficient. I need to get expert advice that I can use to get him to admit he doesn't know what he is doing. Should he be responsible for the floors that are buckling?

Bernie Riddle_2

SS2

Well, I dont know about the rest of the system but that SS2 has the draft set to maximum draft fom the factory and is supposed to be adjusted with a draft guage after its installed. I think wide open they pull like 2.0 draft so if thats the case its like a giant shop vac sucking all your heat out of the boiler......

Ray Landry_3

That boiler will have a very short life the way it is piped. There is no way to prevent cold water from shocking the boiler. A properly designed quick track system should be running around 130 tops and resetting as the weather outside changes. It sounds like you have got some issues with using 'on off' thermostats and not being able to wait for the radiant floor to warm up in time to satisfy t stat. Do you have pictures of the quick track as it went down? I think your best bet would be to find a professional to help you with this problem, maybe try the 'find a professional' link on this site.

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Tony_23

Jeepers

What a mess.

Forget about getting him to admit he's clueless, he doesn't know. He didn't even follow the simple instructions w/ the circs not to install w/ the electrical box on the bottom. I'll bet he's quite impressed with himself

"Quite often the truly incompetent don't even realize it"

Mark Hunt

I'm with Tony


No way I would the original installer touch this.

Where are you located Lance?

Mark H

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lanceP

Thanks to all who responded. I live in Annandale NJ. The second picture shows a manifold that is located in a second floor closet. The master bedroom is on that loop and the master bath. I have to turn off all the valves except the the the one that goes to the bath. The reason I do this is because to get the tile floor in the bath warm enough I must shut the other valves or the bedroom is too hot to sleep in.

lanceP

Anybody who can help that lives in the area would be much appreciated. I know I can't get him to admit he is wrong. What legal course do I have. There must be something I can do to get him to pay for his mistakes.

kevin coppinger_4

you need to ....

start w/ the numbers. Get another reputable contractor in to run a heatloss on everything...and get the numbers form him. The boiler is probably undersized and you probably need some supplimental heat in some of those rooms...what size circulators are on those quicktrac zones? bummer.As far as recourse ...you need the numbers to show him first.

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lanceP

Thanks to all. Mark you were very helpful. Too bad NJ is out of your service area. I am trying to find specs for my Dunkirk Ultimate PFO-3T oil fired tankless coil furnace. I would like to show him he has this piped wrong.Primary-Secondary. Also I would like some specs to show that the pumps are upside down. Once again thank you all very much.

Mark Hunt

Lance

Go here for the specs. Page 12 clearly shows by-pass piping to protect the boiler from low temp return water.

Hope this helps.

Mark H

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