dangerous fumes from boiler?

Steve M_2

Is there sufficient combustion air in the mechanical room. It looks like you're burning alot of B.T.U.'s, that'd be the thing I'd check first.

tom_82

One of my neighbors who lives above the boiler in our building is waking up at night complaining of fuel fumes. I have posted pics of our boiler before and a couple gentleman have commented on possible flu gas problems.
What is the best way to check this.
Thank you for your help.
I attached a couple of pictures that may or mey not help.
TOm

Ken_40

It's time for him to buy a

CO alarm.

NOW! Costco and Home Depot, around 30-well spent bucks!

Although CO is odorless, it almost always comes along with a combustion "smell" that borders on acrid or "fuely" to my nose.

Unless your neighbor is in a location that would pick up chimney byproducts by wierd wind currents - or he has an exhaust fan on (dryer, bath, stove-hood, etc.) and/or loose windows, he should NOT smell anything that resembles fuel byproducts.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no "junky" CO detectors. They're all marginally based on the same technology, and all are "finicky" at times. Urge your friend to install one ASAP.

You might save his life. The least he could do is buy you a beer.

Everybody wins on this move.

Unknown

from the pictures

From the pictures you given on this post, that's a h uge boiler and where's the boiler guy on this? Insulations shown burnt/discolored... Meanings possible flue collector rusting and no longer seals... Betcha, co dectector will be going off in boiler room...have it checked out NOW !

JohnNY

Looks familiar.

It's not mine but the installation looks familiar.
This is in Brooklyn, isn't it?

Get the installer back ASAP.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

tom_82

brookline MA

Thanks for all of your reponses so far. We are contacting the property manager asap to a. put co detector in boiler room, call contractor to have burner looked at. He was just there fro a walk through of our syster...hmmm

tom_82

Apparantly we don't have a CO dectector in the boiler room because our property manager was told it would be set off by the heat. Is that something that you guys have experienced?

I am assuming our contractor will have the appropriate testing equipment to find any faulty seals. Is that a correct assumption?
Thanks again
TOm

steve b

co detectors

This doesn't address your question about installing a CO detector in the boiler room, but if a building satisfies the law in Massachusetts there should be CO detectors on each habitable floor: http://www.mass.gov/dfs/osfm/pubed/flyers/carbon_monoxide_safety_guide.pdf

Ken_40

Since occassional

puffs of combustion products - which would likely contain small enough traces of CO to trigger a boiler room CO sensor for that purpose, it is not uncommon to have CO sensors immediately next to the boiler room, which by code, must have a fire-code door between the mechanical/boiler room (and be kept closed at all times)- and the "occupied space or egress area thereto."

Typically, the allway immediately outside the boiler room, would have a CO detector nearby.

Heat sensors and smoke detectors are an entirely different form of alarm, although it is not uncommon to see them both or even all three piggy-backed into one module.

Firomatic thermal fused/switches are rquired directly above residential and almost all comercial heating equipment as per the NEC.

Many older buildings are grandfathered in, some states have deleted that code reference. The temperature setting is determined by the model of the fuse. I do not know how high the trigger setpoint can be, but would think something like 160F might be the highest you could get?

Unknown

Never assume.

This boiler is a pressure-fire type boiler that operates with positive pressure in the chamber and through the flue passageways to a damper in the flue outlet breeching at the rear of the boiler. Regardless of whether it is firing with a gas burner or oil burner it needs to be checked, cleaned and serviced at least annually. Some technicians are equipped to check for the positive pressure in the chamber and at the breech and some are not. Most owners of these boilers or property management companies will contract on an annual basis to ensure for proper operation of these larger boilers. That would normally be with a company that is knowledgable and equipped to do so. Always a good idea to have things checked out for safety reasons.


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Technical Development

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

tom_82

your right,
I called my neighbor and they do have co detector in their unit. Does that completely rule out co as a potential threat?
Our property manager just sent us and email and said our contractor doesn't test for co. she saie we will have to get an environmental engineering company that tests indoor air quality... Seems odd to me, wouldn't a contractor have testing equipment to make sure there are no leaks???
Tom

Ken_40

The vast majority of heating

contractors do NOT check for CO.

The general concensus being, if the boiler is cleaned, the combustion components in good shape, the testing of draft over fire, at the breech and visual chimney inspection is done and passes, the burner adjustements which involve checking combustion byproduct CO2 and temperature as well as smoke, the resulting CO will be marginal - and whatever it is - it is.

Since no combustion gases with, or without CO present (the latter being a near impossibility) are ever supposed to be allowed anywhere but out the chimney, it is unaddressed in almost all testing done. This of course assumes a true pro is doing the work, not a hit-'n-run clean-out artist (the kind that get 12 clean outs for the day's work and he's home by 5 suckin' down the first brewskie; and, travelled over 200 miles to get to all 12 clean outs...)

Is that okay?

Sadly, the answer is "that depends..."

Most boilers over 10 years old could not be adjusted to run with low (under 10 PPM) CO outputs. Less than half could run with less than 100!

The problem really isn't how much CO is present. The problem is how sure are we that it could NEVER get into the living space!

Here in northern VT, roughly 50% of the people burn wood. You don't want to know the CO levels wood stoves put out.

Then too, a system dialed in to 0-10PPM CO today, can shoot to 100+ tomorrow. Things like weather temperature inversions, wind direction, nozzle condition, fan blade impaction, fuel unit pressure wandering, after-drip, squirrels in the flueway, rain in the stack, fuel temperature, etc. Will make a 0-10PPM CO flip out on a dime.

Making sure the vent connector, thimble seal and chimney flueway are sealed well is job one. The actual CO is important, but a distant # 2 to job one.

tom_82

THanks again for all of your help. Thank you Ken for such detail.
I am thrilled to have access to such a great web site of pros who are honest and trying to help.
Thanks
Tom

tim smith

??most boilers over 10 yrs can't run under 100ppm

Ken, I read this and was a bit baffled, all of the boilers we service are adjusted to under 100ppm as required by our utility and normally down below 20ppm, and most we work on are 10 to 80 years old. I don't mean to contradict you but this is the case here.

Ken_40

Maybe for gas

Not for oil.

tom_82

We had the combustion air adressed. The contractor came out and measured the room. They recently installed fire dampers and apparantly with those in place there is enough combustion air to satisfy the boiler. Let's hope.

Tom

chris_86

open section. needs to be repacked as well as all sheet metal to be inspected obviously leaking combustion gases...disaster waiting to happen